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So, who can be called the most powerful magicians-Slanns or Lords of Change? Who will win in open battle, the average Slann or the average Lord of Change?

As GW has shown us with their matched play rules, Slaan do not cast spells; they bank them for summoning.

But more seriously, I am not sure the fluff has ever really addressed that. I would lean towards a Slaan personally, they just have a ton of experience and a certain cold logic that gives them more consistency.

In the Old World, it was definitely the LoCs. Seeing how both are continuations of their old selves, I’d assume it’s still the LoCs.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
In the Old World, it was definitely the LoCs. Seeing how both are continuations of their old selves, I’d assume it’s still the LoCs.

Eeh, I'm not entirely sure where I read that, but wasn't there a story where Kroak or some of the uber-slaann held up an shield against 12 LoCs? Which he then as last resort exploded outwards, killing himself and banishing every demon in the Temple-City?

I could have this entirely wrong and confuse the 12 LoCs with something else, but I'm sure it was something like that.

I feel like it's got to be the Slann, right? Those guys were always considered the most powerful wizards (or so I thought). Doesn't even the new fluff support this?

Waaaghbert wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
In the Old World, it was definitely the LoCs. Seeing how both are continuations of their old selves, I’d assume it’s still the LoCs.

Eeh, I'm not entirely sure where I read that, but wasn't there a story where Kroak or some of the uber-slaann held up an shield against 12 LoCs? Which he then as last resort exploded outwards, killing himself and banishing every demon in the Temple-City?

I could have this entirely wrong and confuse the 12 LoCs with something else, but I'm sure it was something like that.

Well when Kroak was alive he was ludicrously powerful; he is/was the last remaining first generation Slaan, as I think Mazdamundi was second generation. There were four (five?) generations as I recall, with the later ones being younger and less powerful.

''When city after fortress-city fell, at last the way was clear for the Daemonic Hordes to besiege Itza, the First City and lynchpin of the Lizardmen’s arcane defences. Itza was under the protection of Lord Kroak, first of all Slann spawned upon the world and the mightiest of mages. The energy dome that surrounded Itza crackled with energy, turning Daemons to dust as they railed against it. Yet after years of strain, even Lord Kroak could sustain such mystic walls no longer, and with a final surge, he exploded the barrier outwards, flattening the surrounding jungle. A hundred thousand Daemons were banished in an instant. Nevertheless, the remainder swarmed into Itza.[2a]

Of all that long war, no battle was more fiercely fought than the one amongst the streets of Itza. Only an epic stand by Lord Kroak’s army of Temple Guard prevented the Daemons from overrunning the Great Pyramid. For many days and nights, the elite Saurus warriors stood firm on the lofty Bridge of Stars. Using his reservoirs of energy, Lord Kroak prepared his final incantations. As the last of the Temple Guard was cut down, Lord Kroak spouted forth spells that were the preserve of gods, raining fire from the heavens to vaporise the foe. Time stood still as the fabric of the universe strained at the outpour of sheer power.[2a]

Yet eventually even Lord Kroak succumbed. A dozen Bloodthirsters, protected by the favour of their dark god Khorne, fought through the deluge of spells and reached the top of the pyramid. There, they fell upon Lord Kroak’s form, ripping him apart in a savage instant. So overcharged with arcane energies was Lord Kroak that his spirit fought on, refusing to let even death hinder him. Set free of his flesh, Kroak’s radiant will soared above the ruins, scourging the invaders with a divine light that was like unto a second sun. The First City was saved.''

darkoms wrote:
So, who can be called the most powerful magicians-Slanns or Lords of Change? Who will win in open battle, the average Slann or the average Lord of Change?

Two very different questions. The Slann is arguably the more powerful magician, but in open battle (1v1), the Lord of Change will absolutely murder the Slann simply by flying up and hacking it to bits. Neither is likely to score a killing blow trading spells, but once it gets down to melee the LoC is a big monster with several weapons and the Slann is not.

Slaan can just teleport though.

''When city after fortress-city fell, at last the way was clear for the Daemonic Hordes to besiege Itza, the First City and lynchpin of the Lizardmen’s arcane defences. Itza was under the protection of Lord Kroak, first of all Slann spawned upon the world and the mightiest of mages. The energy dome that surrounded Itza crackled with energy, turning Daemons to dust as they railed against it. Yet after years of strain, even Lord Kroak could sustain such mystic walls no longer, and with a final surge, he exploded the barrier outwards, flattening the surrounding jungle. A hundred thousand Daemons were banished in an instant. Nevertheless, the remainder swarmed into Itza.[2a]

Of all that long war, no battle was more fiercely fought than the one amongst the streets of Itza. Only an epic stand by Lord Kroak’s army of Temple Guard prevented the Daemons from overrunning the Great Pyramid. For many days and nights, the elite Saurus warriors stood firm on the lofty Bridge of Stars. Using his reservoirs of energy, Lord Kroak prepared his final incantations. As the last of the Temple Guard was cut down, Lord Kroak spouted forth spells that were the preserve of gods, raining fire from the heavens to vaporise the foe. Time stood still as the fabric of the universe strained at the outpour of sheer power.[2a]

Yet eventually even Lord Kroak succumbed. A dozen Bloodthirsters, protected by the favour of their dark god Khorne, fought through the deluge of spells and reached the top of the pyramid. There, they fell upon Lord Kroak’s form, ripping him apart in a savage instant. So overcharged with arcane energies was Lord Kroak that his spirit fought on, refusing to let even death hinder him. Set free of his flesh, Kroak’s radiant will soared above the ruins, scourging the invaders with a divine light that was like unto a second sun. The First City was saved.''

Beautiful fluff.
#always remember

What about Nagash VS Slaan VS LoC?

darkoms wrote:
''When city after fortress-city fell, at last the way was clear for the Daemonic Hordes to besiege Itza, the First City and lynchpin of the Lizardmen’s arcane defences. Itza was under the protection of Lord Kroak, first of all Slann spawned upon the world and the mightiest of mages. The energy dome that surrounded Itza crackled with energy, turning Daemons to dust as they railed against it. Yet after years of strain, even Lord Kroak could sustain such mystic walls no longer, and with a final surge, he exploded the barrier outwards, flattening the surrounding jungle. A hundred thousand Daemons were banished in an instant. Nevertheless, the remainder swarmed into Itza.[2a]

Of all that long war, no battle was more fiercely fought than the one amongst the streets of Itza. Only an epic stand by Lord Kroak’s army of Temple Guard prevented the Daemons from overrunning the Great Pyramid. For many days and nights, the elite Saurus warriors stood firm on the lofty Bridge of Stars. Using his reservoirs of energy, Lord Kroak prepared his final incantations. As the last of the Temple Guard was cut down, Lord Kroak spouted forth spells that were the preserve of gods, raining fire from the heavens to vaporise the foe. Time stood still as the fabric of the universe strained at the outpour of sheer power.[2a]

Yet eventually even Lord Kroak succumbed. A dozen Bloodthirsters, protected by the favour of their dark god Khorne, fought through the deluge of spells and reached the top of the pyramid. There, they fell upon Lord Kroak’s form, ripping him apart in a savage instant. So overcharged with arcane energies was Lord Kroak that his spirit fought on, refusing to let even death hinder him. Set free of his flesh, Kroak’s radiant will soared above the ruins, scourging the invaders with a divine light that was like unto a second sun. The First City was saved.''

Aaah, yeah that was the part I was refering to. It were Bloodthirsters instead of LoCs then, so ignore my statement above

 Ratius wrote:


What about Nagash VS Slaan VS LoC?

I think they are hard to compare, since there are 5 spawns of the slans and 9 conclaves of lords of change.
Nagash must be compared with personal characters like Mazdamundi and Kairos, and not just slanns and lords of change
I think, Mazdamundi>Nagash>Kairos
In fact, I can’t remember the cases where Kairos showed his magical skills, I hope someone will tell about it

Teclis was pretty good too iirc?

I'd argue that the Slaan would be more powerful by a noticeable margin based on the fact that their numbers are very limited. They are not populating new Slaan in any great number (if at all?) and thus they are very rare and few. For them to conduct their grand war over the millennia they either have to hide or have the power to stay alive.

I would thus argue that they would indeed be stronger than a single Lord of Change since the Lords are infinite in number unless their patron god were to fully fall - and even then the Lords would likely hang around with infighting until one arose to take Tzeentch's throne.


That said the Slaan mages might have more raw power, but might not wish to unleash it. Unleashing such powers might tear them apart or damage the fabric of creation and life that they wish to protect. As the story above showed, the power that Lord Kroak was willing to unleash varied depending on the battle. That he could cast for days on end and increase the power of spells he was casting suggests that he was holding back until the end (and even then might still have held back). That holding back might have been to protect reality from the powers he was unleashing; powers that were only released when all else was lost .

Further even if Bloodthirsters are not mages they are supremely powerful and as they are the top tier of the mage-hating legions of Khorne one would assume they'd be very well skilled in taking down powerful mages.



So yes I'd put Slaan above Lords of Change assuming two things

1) That Tzeentch doesn't use the Lord to channel the full fury of his realm.

2) That the Slaan is prepared and in a position and of a mindset to unleash its full power

 Ratius wrote:
What about Nagash VS Slaan VS LoC?

Nagash would mop the floor with them. He's a literal god, another level of power entirely. He's also the strongest magic user in the game by a huge margin.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
What about Nagash VS Slaan VS LoC?

Nagash would mop the floor with them. He's a literal god, another level of power entirely. He's also the strongest magic user in the game by a huge margin.

We are talking about WFB, not AoS

darkoms wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
What about Nagash VS Slaan VS LoC?

Nagash would mop the floor with them. He's a literal god, another level of power entirely. He's also the strongest magic user in the game by a huge margin.

We are talking about WFB, not AoS

But we're in the AoS Background section?


Anyway Nagash was still the most powerful mage user of that age as well, only if memory serves me he was more in the background. An ancient powerful mage who was the boogyman of mage stories for a long while, before coming out and gobbling up all the power he could during the End Times.

 Overread wrote:

darkoms wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
What about Nagash VS Slaan VS LoC?

Nagash would mop the floor with them. He's a literal god, another level of power entirely. He's also the strongest magic user in the game by a huge margin.

We are talking about WFB, not AoS

But we're in the AoS Background section?


Anyway Nagash was still the most powerful mage user of that age as well, only if memory serves me he was more in the background. An ancient powerful mage who was the boogyman of mage stories for a long while, before coming out and gobbling up all the power he could during the End Times.

There is no section WHFB
What age? If you take all the mages in history, the strongest will be Lord Kroak, who will kill Nagash in a second. Until the End of Time, many or even all slanns were definitely stronger than Nagash. At the End of Times, I'm not sure who is stronger — he or Mazdamundi.

Seriously, can anyone give examples of the impressive magic feats of the Lords of Change? At least Kairos?