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where does the rule that you can't have more than 3 of the same unit come from? I've heard this, but I can't seem to locate it in a rulebook or FAQ


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nevermind, I found it, it's in the organized events main rulebook errata

Big FAQ 2018 page 5. It is under "Organised Play". So technically it only belongs in things like Tournaments. Not casual games or even pick-up games. But tournament standard eventually is pressured on most of us.

There is also a clarification in the Big FAQ 2019 page 5.

Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

Also, while it is known as the "Rule of 3", that's a misnomer - it scales with the size of game being played. A limit of 3 might be the most common end result, but it isn't the only possibility.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

While this is technically true, my experience is that most pick up games will use the rule. So generally assume it is in use unless you have established that it is not.

While technically just a "suggestion" for Organized play, it is a good suggestion. That's why most of us adopt it.

It's also important to remember that not even 10 years ago, the only "style" of play required a Force Organization Chart that limited you to 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 3 Elite/Fast/Heavy for your ENTIRE army.
So you could only ever take 3 Elites, 3 Fast and 3 Heavy, didn't even matter if you took 3 different Elites, you only got 3 period. That's how we played it and it worked just fine. Heck, I even remember some people in those days getting miffed when you would take 3 of the same unit because "spam was OP"

-

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

Tygre wrote:
Big FAQ 2018 page 5. It is under "Organised Play". So technically it only belongs in things like Tournaments. Not casual games or even pick-up games. But tournament standard eventually is pressured on most of us.

There is also a clarification in the Big FAQ 2019 page 5.

It's originally from page 214 of the Main Rulebook.

xenoterracide wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

It is the standard most groups play to though, so don't be too hard on them.

 Stux wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

It is the standard most groups play to though, so don't be too hard on them.

On the contrary, be hard on them. Unless you've actively agreed to it--don't bring that crap into pick-up games. It's an optional rule and people need to stop conflating pick-up games with matched play.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Stux wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

It is the standard most groups play to though, so don't be too hard on them.

On the contrary, be hard on them. Unless you've actively agreed to it--don't bring that crap into pick-up games. It's an optional rule and people need to stop conflating pick-up games with matched play.

It does beg the question of what are you taking more than 3 copies of the same datasheet for that's not turning your list into a spamming X unit list given it doesn't apply to troops or dedicated transports?

Also be careful what you wish for or you'll be the poor blank facing off against 6 hivetyrents

Ice_can wrote:

It does beg the question of what are you taking more than 3 copies of the same datasheet for that's not turning your list into a spamming X unit list given it doesn't apply to troops or dedicated transports?

Depends on what list I'm running. My previous Skitarii lists would be "invalid" because of the Rule of 3 trash since they removed my Onagers ability to squadron up. Same goes for the simple fact that there's absolute garbage in terms of HQ options that mesh well with Skitarii(unless you're Mars).
My Phobos Raven Guard lists would be "invalid" because until we get the Codex, the Phobos Lt is 1 per slot not 2. Hell--the sheer number of Reivers(REIVERS!) would be invalid unless I'm Combat Squadding given what I can run.

Hell, my Tau lists that I ran(Stealth Suits, Pathfinders, and Broadsides) would get caught in that nonsense too as I'd run 4-5 squads of Pathfinders.

Also be careful what you wish for or you'll be the poor blank facing off against 6 hivetyrents

Been there, done that, wasn't concerned.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Stux wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

It is the standard most groups play to though, so don't be too hard on them.

On the contrary, be hard on them. Unless you've actively agreed to it--don't bring that crap into pick-up games. It's an optional rule and people need to stop conflating pick-up games with matched play.

It's a good rule that should always be included, and people need to stop hiding behind a ridiculous technicality to defend their spam lists.

 Galef wrote:
While technically just a "suggestion" for Organized play, it is a good suggestion. That's why most of us adopt it.

It's also important to remember that not even 10 years ago, the only "style" of play required a Force Organization Chart that limited you to 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 3 Elite/Fast/Heavy for your ENTIRE army.
So you could only ever take 3 Elites, 3 Fast and 3 Heavy, didn't even matter if you took 3 different Elites, you only got 3 period. That's how we played it and it worked just fine. Heck, I even remember some people in those days getting miffed when you would take 3 of the same unit because "spam was OP"

-

Those were the days. Some armies even got slightly different choices. Like IW got 4 heavy slots but only 2 fast attack sots.

Yes, how dare I field four squads of Reivers!

Oh, you want 120 Plaguebearers? Go ahead.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Yes, how dare I field four squads of Reivers!

Oh, you want 120 Plaguebearers? Go ahead.

Yep. And this is why it is a stupid 'rule'.

 Galef wrote:
While technically just a "suggestion" for Organized play, it is a good suggestion. That's why most of us adopt it.

It's also important to remember that not even 10 years ago, the only "style" of play required a Force Organization Chart that limited you to 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 3 Elite/Fast/Heavy for your ENTIRE army.
So you could only ever take 3 Elites, 3 Fast and 3 Heavy, didn't even matter if you took 3 different Elites, you only got 3 period. That's how we played it and it worked just fine. Heck, I even remember some people in those days getting miffed when you would take 3 of the same unit because "spam was OP"

-

Indeed, you had units that could be chosen only 1 time, no matter what. The "0-1"s. This happened in 40k and WHFB.
In some iteration of 40k, choosing a specific sub-faction or special character opened for options for some unit, but changed some other unit into "0-1"s. See, as an example, the 3rd edition ork codex.
Obviously eventually someone in marketing talked with the design team and said "you do WHAAAT?". "0-1"s were removed and everyone cheered because we want all of our toys on the table!
Same with fixing rules - better just reduce the cost of the units! YEAAAHHH

I can understand WHY the rule is in place (to encourage variety in play and list building), but I feel like it could have been better implemented for sure.

just for what I'm doing... I've got 4 squads of Havocs, each with a different weapon loadout. It's not that good.

I've been running this list for a couple of weeks now (mostly losses with several close games). I didn't realize the rule of 3 was even a thing until 3 nights ago when someone, on here , mentioned it. Then the next day I get lambasted by this 16 year old, to me it seemed like he was accusing me of cheating. I probably won't be too hard on him, his dad already did that for me. I will probably even be slightly apologetic, I simply didn't know in time to change my list.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Stux wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

It is the standard most groups play to though, so don't be too hard on them.

On the contrary, be hard on them. Unless you've actively agreed to it--don't bring that crap into pick-up games. It's an optional rule and people need to stop conflating pick-up games with matched play.

Oh please. That's an awful attitude to go to a gaming group with, 'be hard on them'. Please grow up.

If you don't like the rule, just talk to people. Outside of forums they can be quite reasonable.

You're the only person mentioning a gaming group as far as I've seen. OP simply said that "someone accused him" of breaking the rule and that it was a Matched Play rule.

Simply put:
Matched Play != Rule of 3. It's an optional rule.

It's a hammer solution to a problem that really required a scalpel solution. I wish GW would have reintroduced the 0-1 or 0- whatever limit for individual units rather than an across the board only 3 of any one thing, a restriction that some factions can make a mockery of.

Ice_can wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Stux wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

It is the standard most groups play to though, so don't be too hard on them.

On the contrary, be hard on them. Unless you've actively agreed to it--don't bring that crap into pick-up games. It's an optional rule and people need to stop conflating pick-up games with matched play.

It does beg the question of what are you taking more than 3 copies of the same datasheet for that's not turning your list into a spamming X unit list given it doesn't apply to troops or dedicated transports?

Also be careful what you wish for or you'll be the poor blank facing off against 6 hivetyrents

There are plenty of thematic lists that are impossible while using the rule of 3. There is a reason it was made a suggested tournament rule, and not a core rule. The rule doesn't really solve any problems outside of a couple spamy skew lists, and it hurts creativity in casual lists. Running 3 Riptides is way more abusive than running a handful of Reiver squads, yet the former is perfectly OK and the later will get you pilloried by purists at a local game shop

Dread lists, terminator wings, biker armies, bully boyz nob lists, etc. None of which are even remotely competitive or OP but are impossible when using this "rule"

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Stux wrote:

xenoterracide wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Yeah, it's just a tournament suggestion, outside of those you can easily decide to ignore it with your playgroup. It's not even a matched play rule.

yeah, someone accused me last night of breaking the rule as it was a matched play rule, so I went looking for it. I'm going to correct him next week.

It is the standard most groups play to though, so don't be too hard on them.

On the contrary, be hard on them. Unless you've actively agreed to it--don't bring that crap into pick-up games. It's an optional rule and people need to stop conflating pick-up games with matched play.

and people need to stop treating every pick up game like an ITC tourny game

Might as well just abide by it and assume everyone else is unless explicitly discussed beforehand. It's the de-facto rule in every event, league, tournament or anything else I've played in.

 Galef wrote:
While technically just a "suggestion" for Organized play, it is a good suggestion. That's why most of us adopt it.

It's also important to remember that not even 10 years ago, the only "style" of play required a Force Organization Chart that limited you to 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 3 Elite/Fast/Heavy for your ENTIRE army.
So you could only ever take 3 Elites, 3 Fast and 3 Heavy, didn't even matter if you took 3 different Elites, you only got 3 period. That's how we played it and it worked just fine. Heck, I even remember some people in those days getting miffed when you would take 3 of the same unit because "spam was OP"

-

Sure. Except for all those sub-faction specific lists that moved units around chart wise, or just added them to troops as well as whatever other slot, to allow/encourage you to buy more than 3 of something.....

 Galef wrote:
While technically just a "suggestion" for Organized play, it is a good suggestion. That's why most of us adopt it.

It's also important to remember that not even 10 years ago, the only "style" of play required a Force Organization Chart that limited you to 1-2 HQ, 2-6 Troops, 3 Elite/Fast/Heavy for your ENTIRE army.

-

PER Force Org Chart. Some armies still took more than one - especially the Horde armies. In fact one of the SM FOC/Formations was all about taking two FOC Demi-Companies for added bonuses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:


Sure. Except for all those sub-faction specific lists that moved units around chart wise, or just added them to troops as well as whatever other slot, to allow/encourage you to buy more than 3 of something.....

That was two fold in purpose. Most of those Subfactions had a subset of choices. The Ravenwing army doesn't have Tactical Marines. The other reason, and the one that's killing me lately as my Combi-wing army collects dust - was Objective Secured. Those subfactions didn't have troops so they couldn't get objective secured. It's playing with all the downside of an all knight list, and none of the upside right now.

I believe they may be referring to a more distant time. In editions 3, 4, and 5, you could only have 1 “detachment” so to speak.

1-2 HQ
2-6 Troops
0-3 Elites
0-3 Fast Attack
0-3 Heavy Support

And almost all armies had to abide by that limitation.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You're the only person mentioning a gaming group as far as I've seen. OP simply said that "someone accused him" of breaking the rule and that it was a Matched Play rule.

Simply put:
Matched Play != Rule of 3. It's an optional rule.

Cool story bro. Optional rule it may be, but it is a de facto real rule amongst multiple play groups across the world. You can stomp your feet all you want, but all it will get you is no opponents.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You're the only person mentioning a gaming group as far as I've seen. OP simply said that "someone accused him" of breaking the rule and that it was a Matched Play rule.

Simply put:
Matched Play != Rule of 3. It's an optional rule.

Cool story bro. Optional rule it may be, but it is a de facto real rule amongst multiple play groups across the world. You can stomp your feet all you want, but all it will get you is no opponents.

Or maybe they should play by the rules instead...