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The non-Codex SM errata has just gone up on Warhammer Community

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/16/space-marines-new-rules-for-non-codex-chaptersgw-homepage-post-3/

No major surprises - just adding the new weapon rules and Shock Assault. Chapter Traits for non-Codex chapters don't apply to vehicles.

While it probably won't happen until Chapter Approved, all I can see/think is...."man if the Demolisher is D6, the Guard Russ Demolisher is going to be even better..."

Hateful Assault will help Chaos a little bit, particularly considering their already excellent Death to the False Emperor (which is slightly compounded by it). Unfortunate they didn't slip in a few points changes, but I know CA20 will address that.

No updates to points values. So cheaper thunder hammers and repulsors, but more expenses tacticals etc.

I'm disappointed the chaplain rites didn't get updated.

One thing that was nice to see, though, was that they explicitly patched Angels of Death onto FW units.

Emissary wrote:
No updates to points values. So cheaper thunder hammers and repulsors, but more expenses tacticals etc.

I'm disappointed the chaplain rites didn't get updated.

The lack of points updates seemed strange to me since I figured the Thunder Hammer point increase was mainly for Blood Angels' Smash Captains.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

Emissary wrote:
No updates to points values. So cheaper thunder hammers and repulsors, but more expenses tacticals etc.

I'm disappointed the chaplain rites didn't get updated.

The lack of points updates seemed strange to me since I figured the Thunder Hammer point increase was mainly for Blood Angels' Smash Captains.

Definitely strange. They've added the new units with their points values, so it seems like an odd decision not to include a list of errata'd points for the stuff that's changed in the SM Codex. Now we have different types of SM with very different rules and even higher points values for strictly worse units. BA Tacticals are more expensive and strictly worse than Codex SM ones for no real reason other than apparent laziness.

Of course, this is what happens when you have no consistent design philosophy for your game - yet again GW seem to have fallen prey to their old habits of "I have a great idea" game design.

 Mud Turkey 13 wrote:

Emissary wrote:
No updates to points values. So cheaper thunder hammers and repulsors, but more expenses tacticals etc.

I'm disappointed the chaplain rites didn't get updated.

The lack of points updates seemed strange to me since I figured the Thunder Hammer point increase was mainly for Blood Angels' Smash Captains.

Strange? No...Totally expected. Make point change to specifically target a unit and then forget to target that unit. Par for the course. Kind of like nerfing fly game wide to target the same unit and then unnerfing it...Seriosuly - just raise the cost of BA captain if that is what you want to do. Even better - fix stratagems where only 1-2 can be used per turn.

 Dysartes wrote:
One thing that was nice to see, though, was that they explicitly patched Angels of Death onto FW units.

Just not onto Index units that they still produce models for.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
One thing that was nice to see, though, was that they explicitly patched Angels of Death onto FW units.

Just not onto Index units that they still produce models for.

Fair point - have you brought that to their attention?

 Dysartes wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
One thing that was nice to see, though, was that they explicitly patched Angels of Death onto FW units.

Just not onto Index units that they still produce models for.

Fair point - have you brought that to their attention?

Yes, I posted a message on Facebook to them. I also addressed the fact they messed up all the Chapter Masters in the update and didn't give them the correct aura ability.

Now I want an errata of this new errata - the Index Astartes errata is:
Flamestorm Cannon Increase Range to 12"

...only FW doesn't have a model in the Index Astartes with a Flamestorm...but it does have the Infernus Cannon on the Relic Demios Pattern Predator...

My Salamanders want their Infernus Cannon range increased!

Greg

 Dysartes wrote:
One thing that was nice to see, though, was that they explicitly patched Angels of Death onto FW units.

Which is all I cared about to be honest.

 gungagreg wrote:
Now I want an errata of this new errata - the Index Astartes errata is:
Flamestorm Cannon Increase Range to 12"

...only FW doesn't have a model in the Index Astartes with a Flamestorm...but it does have the Infernus Cannon on the Relic Demios Pattern Predator...

My Salamanders want their Infernus Cannon range increased!

Greg

I use that predator in my chaos list. Except that one is called "Infernal Flamestorm Cannon".

How much do you want to be chaos won't be getting an update for it.

GW could at least by me dinner first. Or throw on some lube.

CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

It's not as bad as 6th ed. It's what i expected.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

BA/DA/SW/GK will probably be getting updates when they get their second-wave codex update.

CSM are just back in their days of being 2 years behind everyone else though.

Yeah, CSM really got hammered, imo.

I mean at least DA/BA/SW will likely get a quick patch job 2.0 codex soon that brings it in line with space marines. for CSMs that ship sailed.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Wait... why would any of the vigilus stratagems get hikes? Some of them already cost more CP than they are actually worth.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Yeah, I think it's just time to put everything on ice for awhile. GW got me again, I thought maybe they were going to do things the right way, my bad.

Niiru wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Wait... why would any of the vigilus stratagems get hikes? Some of them already cost more CP than they are actually worth.

some of them cost 2 CPs instead of 1, but you no longer need to pay the 1 CP detachment tax so it evens out

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Wait... why would any of the vigilus stratagems get hikes? Some of them already cost more CP than they are actually worth.

some of them cost 2 CPs instead of 1, but you no longer need to pay the 1 CP detachment tax so it evens out

Is that something that happened for space marines?

I mean that doesn't really change anything, unless the detachment cost dropped to zero but field commander was still 1CP. That would be good, as you'd get the extra warlord trait for 1CP instead of 2CP. Is that what space marines got? Cos that's a huge buff, and something CSM needs. Special detachments for CSM are too expensive to bother with at the moment.

Expected, but still disappointed.
GW still have gak rules and zero logic.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Or chapter approved 2019 which is not that far off and where points changes usually are made outside codexes.

EDIT: Also Big FAQ where they sometimes put in "emergency" point changes, which is even closer.

Niiru wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Wait... why would any of the vigilus stratagems get hikes? Some of them already cost more CP than they are actually worth.

some of them cost 2 CPs instead of 1, but you no longer need to pay the 1 CP detachment tax so it evens out

Is that something that happened for space marines?

I mean that doesn't really change anything, unless the detachment cost dropped to zero but field commander was still 1CP. That would be good, as you'd get the extra warlord trait for 1CP instead of 2CP. Is that what space marines got? Cos that's a huge buff, and something CSM needs. Special detachments for CSM are too expensive to bother with at the moment.

Nope the vigilous detachments are in a wierd limbo land of calling out units from a codex that has been replaced, some will argue that they are still playable some will argue they arn't.
It's something that GW may need to address in the 2 week FAQ.

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Wait... why would any of the vigilus stratagems get hikes? Some of them already cost more CP than they are actually worth.

some of them cost 2 CPs instead of 1, but you no longer need to pay the 1 CP detachment tax so it evens out

With a single use it is even. For example indominus veterans got a nerf where it costs 2 CP for a 10 man squad. I was using it to make 4 10 man units vets though. Before it cost 5 CP to do that - now it costs 8. Plus the stratagems cost more. It really is a big nerf. I don't think choas got anything that good though unless you are really going all in on a single detachment. Heck the sniper stratagem went from 1 to 3 command points.

 Xenomancers wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Wait... why would any of the vigilus stratagems get hikes? Some of them already cost more CP than they are actually worth.

some of them cost 2 CPs instead of 1, but you no longer need to pay the 1 CP detachment tax so it evens out

With a single use it is even. For example indominus veterans got a nerf where it costs 2 CP for a 10 man squad. I was using it to make 4 10 man units vets though. Before it cost 5 CP to do that - now it costs 8. Plus the stratagems cost more. It really is a big nerf. I don't think choas got anything that good though unless you are really going all in on a single detachment. Heck the sniper stratagem went from 1 to 3 command points.

I don't know what the sniper strat is, but SM already have insanely good snipers. And from what I hear, they just got massive buffs to their snipers on top of that (or maybe it's a new unit, I can't remember). Think it was something like S4 AP-3 D2... not sure.

I guess this is balanced though, considering the chaos sniper statline of S0 AP0 D0.

 Xenomancers wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
CSM/BA/DA/SW/GK no enhanced Chapter/Legion tactics.

Welcome to the land of the screwed over.

Well - there is one advantage to this setup. Your vigilis stratagems did not get hikes. So that is 1 thing going for Chaos. You will have to wait till the next big rules update until CSM squads go down to 12 points...It is pretty disappointing. I just don't get how a company with so many resources can be so poor about this.

Wait... why would any of the vigilus stratagems get hikes? Some of them already cost more CP than they are actually worth.

some of them cost 2 CPs instead of 1, but you no longer need to pay the 1 CP detachment tax so it evens out

With a single use it is even. For example indominus veterans got a nerf where it costs 2 CP for a 10 man squad. I was using it to make 4 10 man units vets though. Before it cost 5 CP to do that - now it costs 8. Plus the stratagems cost more. It really is a big nerf. I don't think choas got anything that good though unless you are really going all in on a single detachment. Heck the sniper stratagem went from 1 to 3 command points.

why would you need multiple vetern squads now that you can access the various other startaigiums for free. I mean it's alright but..

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, CSM really got hammered, imo.

So long it is not the one codex that stuck around for so long and basically came right after the best conceptually written out CSM dex.
We will be annoyed, but fine.