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A thread for discussing Space Marine tactics using the second version of the Space Marines 8th edition codex and the associated supplements.

A previous thread can be found here.


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The enemies of the Emperor fear many things.
They fear discovery, defeat, despair and death.
Yet there is one thing they fear above all others.
They fear the wrath of the Space Marines!

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Thank goodness this was done.

With the Vanguards stuff, the Impulsor and the Drop Pod buff marines now have a large selection of units that can deploy or easily move close to the enemy easily. This got me thinking about the command auras. Would it be wise to have two Captains (and possibly Lieutenants too) in the army? One going with the units that get close to the enemy lines, another staying in the backfield buffing the longer ranged elements?

Also, what do people think of the Chaplain litanies? How are they best used?

Looking at the new stuff (and waiting patiently for my supplement to drop) i think black templars are at an ok place now. I have a reason to run my gravis captain now, give him chapter master for 2cp and the new vox relic for a 9" reroll bubble... its not as good as the crusaders helm was but it will work for now. However i am going to probably run mine as a successor chapter for now because i would rather have the +1 to charge rolls and reroll failed charges than the 5+++ vs mortal wounds and reroll charges.

Drop pod buff is by far the nicest change in the book, and the litanies on the chaplins are quite nice. I am going to run a chaplain with jump pack so that t1 he gets the +2 to charge, run him up the field, drop pod cc troops in near him and give them a +3 to charge t1 rerolling failed. That should give my opponent enough of an issue to chew on so t2 stuff that comes in (terminators / interceptors) can do whatever they want.

I think that the 2+ to charge and 5+++ are the big winners out of the litanies. However i see marines as just as fragile as ever, they just hit much harder quicker than others can. Should be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

I sketched my first 2k list. In the draft I'm thinking puttingbthe chaplain with catechism of fire next to Marneus (WT) and 10 stalker bolt rifle and TH intercessors, helblasters and phobos librarian which are screened by infiltrators. Then I stuck 8 intercessors with TH and chapter master captain with additional WT of storm of fire in a repulsor

Remember, storm of fire doesn't stack with tactical doctrines.

So Honoured Sergeant on an Ultramarines Aggressor Sergeant for +1 damage on all his bullets and Power Fist attacks is amazing.

Azuza001 wrote:
Remember, storm of fire doesn't stack with tactical doctrines.

Which is fine to be honest.

 Eldarain wrote:
So Honoured Sergeant on an Ultramarines Aggressor Sergeant for +1 damage on all his bullets and Power Fist attacks is amazing.

Oh dear! That is legitimately nasty!

On another note if this is the Mark 2 thread does that make it the Crusade Thread?

 Crimson wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
So Honoured Sergeant on an Ultramarines Aggressor Sergeant for +1 damage on all his bullets and Power Fist attacks is amazing.

Oh dear! That is legitimately nasty!

Even nastier on an assault centurion. He’d be an absolute monster.

I’m not sure whichcbunit has gained the most out of the new book but assault centurions are Ruhr up there. 52 points for a guy with 4 S10 attacks on the charge, hitting on 3s for 3 damage, is incredibly harsh. And they’ve got amazing amounts of dakka too.

So, what's everyonje figure re the new Dread-Not (invictor warsuit.) autocanon or flamer? the flamer has some appeal as you can drop in and immediatly flame some guys turn one. I mean I useally dismiss flamers in this edition, but this could work

I would think flamer to be an even bigger pain in the ass as tying it up with chaff would be a go to answer for it.

BrianDavion wrote:
So, what's everyonje figure re the new Dread-Not (invictor warsuit.) autocanon or flamer? the flamer has some appeal as you can drop in and immediatly flame some guys turn one. I mean I useally dismiss flamers in this edition, but this could work

Well it can be fired effectively on the move but at the cost of only getting that foot of range.

I think there's a legit argument over which one you want to be honest. I lean towards Autocannon myself as I love the profile but if you think you need more anti-infantry you're good with the Flamer.

I’m not sure chaff will work against it. Send incursors too and they’ll go through most cheap infantry easily enough.

Personally I think the autocannon might be the way to go. There’s already so much dakka available to marines that more average strength and ap 1-damage weapons aren’t really needed. But to be honest it’s not an easy call either way.

Now that kill shot is gone, invictors seem to be a bit unfair compared to dakka predators. They’ve got more wounds and more dakka, they’re cheaper, and also they’re an infiltrating dreadnought-ish-thing. This is annoying because I’ve recently been refurbishing three predators but they’ve clearly been outclassed now, and my HS slots are massively oversubscribed.

Anyway what that leads me to think is that the autocannon is what you want if you’re going second. Park your invictors in your deployment zone, or out on a flank or whatever, and you’ve got a great counter-punch unit - with enough dakka to work perfectly well in a gunline.

I’m still coming across some slight changes that could be significant. For example Icarus pods doing 2 damage now means you definitely want one any chance you can get, because it’s a 6 point autocannon. I’ve usually left them off my repulsors because they weren’t worth the hassle of rolling for, but that has changed.

The one massive downside to the invictor is T6,
I expect a lot of weapons are going to be eating through their wounds much faster than people expect.

Updating my army, getting ready for small tournament.... a little surprise for me, my razorback doesn't have the twin heavy flamer anymore... don't know if the option will still be on Battlescribe. For my fast reading, I will go more with the primaris for my Raven Guard than normal space marine for my main army. The SM will be repaint as Raptor and Cacharadon…

Ice_can wrote:
The one massive downside to the invictor is T6,
I expect a lot of weapons are going to be eating through their wounds much faster than people expect.

T6? Rhinos are T7! that's like, a flying Trukk, not a flying Rhino...

 Crazyterran wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
The one massive downside to the invictor is T6,
I expect a lot of weapons are going to be eating through their wounds much faster than people expect.

T6? Rhinos are T7! that's like, a flying Trukk, not a flying Rhino...

The Invictor is the new Dreadnought, not the flying Rhino.

It's NOT a rhino... More like a razorback or a transport repulsor. Could you stop calling it rhino when they have no shared characteristics ?
They don't even look alike...

So will this 'dex breathe new life into any units that have been shelved? I'm especially thinking of land speeders and attack bikes with the White Scars ability to lift penalties for moving heavies. Also assault marines with the White Scars CT. And others, I'm sure...

Don't know how out of use bikers were but they got a massive boost with even just the skilled riders strategem.

I think the unused stalker also gets new life with the skyfire strategem. Extra +1 to wound and potential double damage with devastator doctrine is huge for just 1cp. With eldar flyers still dominate it is a cheap choice.

 MacPhail wrote:
So will this 'dex breathe new life into any units that have been shelved? I'm especially thinking of land speeders and attack bikes with the White Scars ability to lift penalties for moving heavies. Also assault marines with the White Scars CT. And others, I'm sure...

Are Land Speeders subject to the penalty removal for Heavy Weapons? If so, that's actually huge.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
So will this 'dex breathe new life into any units that have been shelved? I'm especially thinking of land speeders and attack bikes with the White Scars ability to lift penalties for moving heavies. Also assault marines with the White Scars CT. And others, I'm sure...

Are Land Speeders subject to the penalty removal for Heavy Weapons? If so, that's actually huge.

All units get Chapter Tactics now.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
So will this 'dex breathe new life into any units that have been shelved? I'm especially thinking of land speeders and attack bikes with the White Scars ability to lift penalties for moving heavies. Also assault marines with the White Scars CT. And others, I'm sure...

Are Land Speeders subject to the penalty removal for Heavy Weapons? If so, that's actually huge.

All units get Chapter Tactics now.

that portion of the white scar chapter tactic only applies to bikers.

If you want land speeders to fire with out the minus, ultramarines after turn 1 are your only option so far.

footfoe wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
So will this 'dex breathe new life into any units that have been shelved? I'm especially thinking of land speeders and attack bikes with the White Scars ability to lift penalties for moving heavies. Also assault marines with the White Scars CT. And others, I'm sure...

Are Land Speeders subject to the penalty removal for Heavy Weapons? If so, that's actually huge.

All units get Chapter Tactics now.

that portion of the white scar chapter tactic only applies to bikers.

If you want land speeders to fire with out the minus, ultramarines after turn 1 are your only option so far.

Really? That's lame as hell.

white scars however do have a start that allows them to treat a heavy weapon like an assault weapon on a unit that ahs advanced. but yeah not a lot in the white scars supplement that benifits land speeders sadly

 JNAProductions wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
So will this 'dex breathe new life into any units that have been shelved? I'm especially thinking of land speeders and attack bikes with the White Scars ability to lift penalties for moving heavies. Also assault marines with the White Scars CT. And others, I'm sure...

Are Land Speeders subject to the penalty removal for Heavy Weapons? If so, that's actually huge.

All units get Chapter Tactics now.

White Scars only called out Bikers for ignoring the heavy penalty I thought?

 godardc wrote:
It's NOT a rhino... More like a razorback or a transport repulsor. Could you stop calling it rhino when they have no shared characteristics ?
They don't even look alike...

It's a rhino.

It becomes a gakky razorback if you buy it some guns. But stock it has 2 storm bolters and that's it.

Invictors are heavy support? Bah. I was kinda assuming they'd be FA or maybe Elite, but didn't look closely at the previews. Couple with units of only 3 Eliminators, that's a lot of HS slots.

I was originally hoping to skip them on principle of basically being an upgraded nondread dread, but their stats are so nice for ~130pts. Either weapon is tempting. Normally I'd be all about the autocannon, but if deploying up close that 2d6 flamer could do some serious damage. Or at least protect against charges.