Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Based on what we've seen so far and since the entirety of the book is spoiled, Ive knocked up an early target build to start working toward.

Of course the relics arent here, battlescribe hasnt updated them yet.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [57 PL, 8CP, 1,115pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Captain in Gravis Armor [6 PL, 108pts]: Boltstorm gauntlet, Master-crafted power sword

Primaris Chaplain [4 PL, 77pts]: 1. Litany of Faith, Litany of Hate

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 80pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [4 PL, 80pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Scout Squad [4 PL, 80pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

+ Elites +

Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 222pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant
. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Primaris Apothecary [3 PL, 60pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [9 PL, 150pts]: Jump Pack
. 9x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol/Chainsword

Assault Squad [9 PL, 150pts]: Jump Pack
. 9x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol/Chainsword

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 108pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Camo cloak, Las Fusil
. 2x Eliminator with Las Fusil: 2x Camo cloak, 2x Las Fusil

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [58 PL, 5CP, 879pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Captain in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 99pts]: Camo cloak, Master-crafted instigator bolt carbine

Librarian in Phobos Armour [5 PL, 101pts]: Camo cloak, Force sword

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

Scout Squad [4 PL, 55pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Scout w/Boltgun

+ Fast Attack +

Suppressor Squad [4 PL, 90pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Grav-chute

+ Heavy Support +

Centurion Devastator Squad [24 PL, 280pts]
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters
. Centurion Sergeant: Hurricane bolter, Two Heavy Bolters

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak
. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak

Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]
. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt sniper rifle, Camo cloak
. 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper: 2x Bolt sniper rifle, 2x Camo cloak

++ Total: [115 PL, 13CP, 1,994pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

So anyway, due to strategems making the list HYPER MOBILE and sneaky....you have a list here that will INFILTRATE the Centurions at a safe distance but effective vs a prime target. Far enough away and on a terrain peice though for that important cover and -1 to hit. Apothacary and Phobos Captain to babysit.

Aggressors and Gravis Captain will ALSO deploy due to one of the new warlord traits that will allow both to deploy at the beginning of the game >9" away to clear a screen or assault.

Padre of pain is here as well, but with the new "Ninja Vanish!" Ravenguard rule....no knight will be safe once some zones are cleared for deepstrike.

Anyway, this list is a Start. I know its super early to post despite the early spoiling of the 'dex but Im pretty stoked about them and wanted to share.

Why no Shrike in this list? He would give full rerolls and all those assault marines would be able to reroll their charges!

Also you are severely light on anti tank. If someone takes out those las fusils (not that tough) you're left with no good options to deal with anything above t5.

If you run those assault matines as vanguard vets and add 3 or 4 thunder hammers in each squad then you have some extra options. The chaplain really won't do a lot vs a knight, he's nice for the points but will only do 6 wounds or so.

Chaplains are Knight killers now with Benediction of Fury.

That and a warlord trait = 7 attacks hitting and wounding knights on 3+. If its a Character knight hitting and wounding on 2+.

Each time wounded is 4 wounds with a mortal on 6's. (5 vs character knight)

Scouts? Come on. Leave them behind.

 Blue Falcon wrote:
Chaplains are Knight killers now with Benediction of Fury.

That and a warlord trait = 7 attacks hitting and wounding knights on 3+. If its a Character knight hitting and wounding on 2+.

Each time wounded is 4 wounds with a mortal on 6's. (5 vs character knight)

7 attacks, 4.7 hits, 3 wounds, 2 unsaved. 8 wounds and a mortal wound. Plus you need to roll a 3+, make a charge, pass a psychic test and not die in overwatch. It's really not reliable or strong enough. Then the knight kills the chaplain, 9/10 in retaliation.

 small_gods wrote:

 Blue Falcon wrote:
Chaplains are Knight killers now with Benediction of Fury.

That and a warlord trait = 7 attacks hitting and wounding knights on 3+. If its a Character knight hitting and wounding on 2+.

Each time wounded is 4 wounds with a mortal on 6's. (5 vs character knight)

7 attacks, 4.7 hits, 3 wounds, 2 unsaved. 8 wounds and a mortal wound. Plus you need to roll a 3+, make a charge, pass a psychic test and not die in overwatch. It's really not reliable or strong enough. Then the knight kills the chaplain, 9/10 in retaliation.

What codex do you have? Because Chaplins have WS2 and their crozius or the relic doesn't suffer from any minuses to hit like a thunder hammer or power fist. So with full miss hit rerolls, the chaplin from 7 attacks gets 6.8 hits, 4 wounds and I believe that the chaplin will strike on the turn with the assault doctrines, so chances are the knight won't pull off a save. So, that's then 12 damage wounds caused. This is without relying on any psychic test.

Even if you kill the chaplin, there is a high chance that he'll be able to inflict another 12 wounds. 12 + 12 equals a very deal knight or at least very close to dead as you would have dealt 8 wounds and the law of average dictates that at least one of them will be saved, so it would be 7x 3 damage wounds. For 3 to 4 CP to pull that off on a 90 pt model. It is more than worth it

Ainz Sama wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 Blue Falcon wrote:
Chaplains are Knight killers now with Benediction of Fury.

That and a warlord trait = 7 attacks hitting and wounding knights on 3+. If its a Character knight hitting and wounding on 2+.

Each time wounded is 4 wounds with a mortal on 6's. (5 vs character knight)

7 attacks, 4.7 hits, 3 wounds, 2 unsaved. 8 wounds and a mortal wound. Plus you need to roll a 3+, make a charge, pass a psychic test and not die in overwatch. It's really not reliable or strong enough. Then the knight kills the chaplain, 9/10 in retaliation.

What codex do you have? Because Chaplins have WS2 and their crozius or the relic doesn't suffer from any minuses to hit like a thunder hammer or power fist. So with full miss hit rerolls, the chaplin from 7 attacks gets 6.8 hits, 4 wounds and I believe that the chaplin will strike on the turn with the assault doctrines, so chances are the knight won't pull off a save. So, that's then 12 damage wounds caused. This is without relying on any psychic test.

Even if you kill the chaplin, there is a high chance that he'll be able to inflict another 12 wounds. 12 + 12 equals a very deal knight or at least very close to dead as you would have dealt 8 wounds and the law of average dictates that at least one of them will be saved, so it would be 7x 3 damage wounds. For 3 to 4 CP to pull that off on a 90 pt model. It is more than worth it

That's really over simplified though isn't it?

You have to roll a 3+ for prayer, 6 plus psychic test that isn't denied, you have to survive a knights overwatch, make a charge roll and if you want to fight again survive the retaliation.

If you presume that you have a 6" charge and the knight you're charging is a crusader (the most popular build). Then you have 66% for prayer 72% for psychic (ignoring dtw and strats to cancel it), 72% chance for the charge and surviving overwatch around 80%. Then you have a 27% chance of this working without rerolls, 73% if you use a reroll at each stage.

Then you have to survive retaliation, which you won't, and then you've done a little over 11 wounds. There's no way that raven guard will be using assault doctrine when you have 1 mele unit.

I'm not saying it's a bad option but 178 points (Chaplin and librarian) and up to 8 cp to do 11 wounds to a knight is not good enough to be your only one either.

Its not his ONLY option, though, he can put a litany on his squad of centurions and let them shoot 40 times at effective s5 and 24 times at effective s8, generating the same rough amount of damage to the knight without having to charge it at all. Its a smidge slower than rushing in as a high risk high gain assassination charge, but over two turns, you pretty much crap the knight.
Its still ... hmm. Do you have to pick litanies before battle? He might have to pick a different one to be able to get wound rerolls on his centurions. But it seems a buff he can afford to throw every round, on his pick of centurion or aggressor squads, and milk their boltswarms for all they can be.