[2000] - Daemons/CSM - Dread Cluster

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**Elric Greywolf**

Spoiler:

The plan is to screen the dreads and the three Alpha characters with Plaguebearers and Cultists. One Dread will be -2 to hit (if greater than 12" away, -1 to hit if within 12"), the other will have regular Alpha Legion -1 to hit and Delightful Agonies. They'll both be rerolling hits of 1 (on BS2+). Obviously the Prince and Bloodletters are my aggressive units. Ahriman can zip around to objectives and kills scouts.

My second option:

Spoiler:

This one has a bit more synergy, I feel like. The Alpha Decimators will have a 4++ and reroll hits and wounds of 1 thanks to the Possessor. One of them will be -2 to hit (so would be ignored) or have +1 to hit (and so would be targeted). The TSons Contemptor will be -1 to hit with a 4++, with the ability to regain wounds.

So, any thoughts on which one is better? The Deredeos are obviously better in terms of shooting ability, and have a 2+ save...but the Deicmators+Contemptor have double the shots,and three of them don't degrade. Plus Infernal Power will mitigate the BS3+.

**Tazberry**

I like list nr2!! Have a similar list like that but all in on shooting and Lord Discordant for +1 to hit on Daemon engines.
I don’t think you’re dark apostle will bring his points back in terms of defense buff. He seems like a ok choice on paper but most people have said it’s a trap. Have not played him myself tho.

If you take out the dark apostle and contemptor, then add a Lord Discordant and max out on Plaguebearers so they will survive better. Then if you have points left, add more cultists to maybe 20man unit to use forward operatives on for a first screen to block with vs GSC and others fast moving threats.

With this you move up cultists and screen, you shoot your opponent with butchers, move up baers and have total control over half the table if not more. Then you drop in letters and charging with DP (must take axe relic! Love it!). Turn 3 and onwards you should have control over the table and more than half of the objectives and scoring a lot of VP. On top of this you have a great psychic phase doing MW.

Hope I was of some help or something.

Edit. The Decimators doesn’t benefit from any trait sadly. No vehicles do in chaos.

**Elric Greywolf**

Tazberry wrote:

Edit. The Decimators doesn’t benefit from any trait sadly. No vehicles do in chaos.

Keyword: HELBRUTE gets traits...but I checked and Decimators don't have that keyword (although Deredeos and Contemptors do). So I suppose, contrary to your advice, I'll have to go with the Deredeos! -1 to hit is just too good to miss, and I'd rather have that on the superiour shooting platform than have the Possessor's buffs on the Daemon Engines.

I do have a Nurgle Daemon Engine list that I'm excited to try out (probably never).

Spoiler:

**Elric Greywolf**

Update:

I've been playing around with the list, and here's the new hotness I've thought up:

Spoiler:

So this replaces the Letter Bomb with a second PB blob. I'm not sure this is the right choice. It also drops the TSons psychic support in favour of the Knight. I know that most lists are good at taking out a Knight, but with the Knight and the double Deredeo, there should be some target saturation going on.
The Knight will zoom forward, and if it dies it can still get up at the end of the phase. TERROR with the Dread butchers will put a few units at -3 or -4 Ld, which seems fun!

My problem is that I don't really have much in the way of damage dealing outside the Mecha....

**small_gods**

I think it's got two different lists running at the same time which is why it seems to he light on damage. Plaguebearers and daemon princes work well together because people have to shoot at plaguebearers and then they have to deal with daemon princes. The knights and dreads work well because they're fairly immune to low str shots.

I have been running a list similar to the second half recently which is doing really well:

Spoiler:

I think if you run the armour list it should have bare minimum of screen, brims cultists etc. And if you're going plaguebearer heavy bring back the TSons.

Just my thoughts though, you have all decent units so may di just fine as is..?

**Elric Greywolf**

Good insight! It kinda does feel like I'm running two lists, because I'm trying to smush a new concept (Mechs) into my tired old list, Cluster Bombs.

For a while I've been running a triple bomb list: Letter Bomb, Fire Bomb (buff Pink Horrors), and Virus Bomb (Plaguebearers with support) with a few DPs. My issue is that getting a kill on T1 is very difficult for me, and much easier for my opponent (since I take a few min Nurglings as well). My additional screening bodies don't come down till T2, so my DPs have to hang back or get blasted away.

Adding in Deredeos will give me some pretty great shooting. However, it takes away from my original core concept: give my enemy's big guns zero targets.
So if I take two Deredeos and a stompy Knight, my theory is that the enemy will gun down the Knight first and ignore the Dreads, which is kinda what I want.
Although 387 is pretty expensive for a distraction Carnifex....

**small_gods**

Well maybe if you drop the dark apostle you can upgrade the knight to have some decent ranged weapons, I'm a fan of agc, thermal and stormspear. That way even if they focus down your Daredeos t1 you can still get that 1st turn kill.

**Elric Greywolf**

Ok, interesting. Why that build instead of double Avenger? Just points?

I suppose Infernal buff the missile when shooting Knights, buff the Avenger when shooting vehicles/monsters, and buff the thermal when shooting Centurions? (Although they'll use that new strat to make me wound on 4s anyhow...)

**small_gods**

I like the diversity it gives you for the same points as the agc you get 3+d6 high str and damage shots. Although I tend to tun iconoclast because vow of dominance is soooo good.

**Elric Greywolf**

See I'm not sure Vow of Dominance is worth it.
Against anything Str 8 and lower, it's useless; against Str 9-15, it reduces the saves you have to make by 25%; against Str 16+ it reduces the saves you have to make by 40%.

Those are great numbers, but high strength weaponry is relatively rare, and I'd rather have Infernal for THEIR strats. I really like "Bind the Souls" and "Pact w/ Dark Gods." Especially the Pact, I think it happening at the end of the phase is pretty amazing. Die in the enemy fight phase, come back at the end of the phase, charge a squishy unit in your own phase and then play "Bind the Souls" to regain six more wounds!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I'm thinking about all this in terms of a melee Terror knight, whereas you're running a shooty boi. So our tactics are relatively different.