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Hi,

I'm in the process of building my IW army (and my NightLords army as well), and I have a question about the vindicator squadron: is it okay to mix a laser destroyer array with standard demolisher canon ? I haven't found any countre-indication but wanted to make sure. And another thing I'm uncertain is wether if one of the tank moves, then entire squadron counts as having moved or if this is on a vehicle per vehicle basis ? (if both demolisher moved, does the laser destroyer count as having moved as well)

Regarding the list I came up with, I made it before actually reading much about 30k, so there might be some things seen as not really nice (rapiers, looking at you): (points should be up to date according to last FAQ)

Hammer of Olympia RoW, Crusader Organisation:

HQ: (335pt)
1- Kyr Valen (I'll give him another name, but will be a count as) 195pt
2- Legion Centurion: Siege Breaker in Cataphractii Terminator, 1 Phosphex Bomb. 140pt

Troops: (555pt)
1- 15 man Tactical Squad: Sgt Artificer armour: 185pt
2- as above 185pt
3- as above 185pt

Elite: (625pt)
1- Contemptor Dreadnought: Kheres assault canon, extra armour 190pt
2- Rapier Squad: 3x Quad Launcher, Phosphex shells 240pt
3- Techmarine detachement: x3 Techmarines 105pt
4- Apothecarion detachement: x2 Apothecaries 90pt

Fast Attack: (100pt)
1- Land Speeder Squadron: x2 Land speeder, 2 Multi-Melta 100pt

Heavy support: (1310pt)
1- 10 man Iron Havock: 10 autocanon, sgt artificer armour + augury scaner 325pt
2- 6 man Iron Havock: 6 missile Launcher, sgt artificer armour + augury scaner 255pt
3- Siege Tyrant: 295pt
4- Vindicator squadron: 3 Vindicators, 3 dozer blades, 3 extra armour, 1 laser destroyer array, 2 spirit of the machine 435pt

Total points: 2925 (so 75 still tu use).

I will probably no be able to handle primarchs, or heavy armoured compagnies, but seemed to me I would be able to handle a little bit of everything (flier, infantry, tanks if not too many and too well protected, and both infantry and my tanks can impact enemy infantry or tanks).

Any idea / opinion to share ?

Cheers

What is your plan for the tech marines, Khr and the Siege Breaker?

These guys are kind of on their own, which makes them easy pickings. Even if you join them to a squad, you don't have an easy way to deliver them into combat or avoid enemy combat delivery systems (Spartans, Raiders, etc).

Your force seems very focused on firepower, but doesn't have much mobility. On a cover heavy board you may leave a path open to for an opponent to exploit. You also lack a good way to advance to secure any objectives. Your walking squads are very vulnerable.

If you dropped them to 10 man squads and got a melta rhino, and dropped the techmarines/apothicaries you might be able to fit a few more dreads for some close in punch.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

My idea was to place Kyr with one of the iron havoc squad (note entirely sure which though. Autocanon to give the bonus to more men, but make the whole unit more expensive, or the 6 men missile squad), the siege breaker with the siege tyrant, and the apothecaries with the havoc as well. The techmarines would be following the vindicators.

Siege tyrant (+ siege breaker), Contemptor + 1 tac squad would move forward alongside the vindicators, everyone pumping out some shooting, while covered by the Iron havocs. 2 other tac would cover the rear / protect havocs from outflanking. I know they are quite fragile on foot, but I won't really care about damage received by shooting, and the more they are shot at, the easier to "hide" they will become (less models).
The idea was that if you don't come at close to get the tyrant / vindicators / dread, they would be shooting you, and if you come close, the tyrants and dread could punch you.

I was assuming that the firepower of the havocs, tyrants and vindicators could do some damage to even land raiders (but maybe not from the front armour). The land speeders are more to go hunt backfield artillery if there is some.

I had in mind that aginst an infantery heavy army, almost everything in mine can hurt them, and against vehicle heavy (but expecting rhinos/preds a well, not only raiders), I still had enough threat to them all, as I do against limited number of flyers (autocanon and missile from havocs + kheres assault from the dread). The laser vindicator would be more for the really heavy tank (spartan), but will depend if I can keep him static while the demolisher vindicator "move around" him, so they can get closer while maintaining cohesion with the laser one. Need to answer that though. As the point of the machine spirit is to be able to shoot 3 different targets with the vindicator squadron (unless I misunderstood the way that work) if needed.

But again, that is just a feeling and might be completely wrong !

I really imagined the army as a siege / anti-siege force.

Khyr doesn't need to be in a unit for them to benefit from his special rules in the shooting phase. Shatter assault is best used when someone assaults him, so he would be better in an upfront unit.

For your laser destroyer vindicators you don't want to have them moving up. They have range enough to threaten most of the table, and staying still lets them overcharge to get the added shots. Vindicators are not that large either, so it's pretty easy to get side shots on them and the infantry behind them.

Your Tyrants, ML and Iron Havok squads can't hurt flare shielded Land Raiders and Spartans. These units could move up to them with impunity. Artillery is also going to be a problem, as you can usually shield them from one squad and if your speeders outflank or deep strike that leaves 1-2 turns of shooting.

Vindicators are just too squishy to really lead a charge. They need support from Land Raiders to soak up fire and hide their sides.

I would advise you to mech up. Buy a Land Raider and a legion terminator squad, stick Khyr with them in it, and use that to lead your rhinos and template vindicators.

Thought Kyr needed to be in a unit to give the reroll 1'. Then I've more freedom to place him in another unit.

Well the plan for the laser destroyer array (same weapon as the normal laser destroyer I guess) to be somewhat in the "middle" of my front line, and have the 2 demolisher on 1 side moving "around him" to make the front line "rotate" around the laser destroyer. He would not be moving, but the demolisher would, so the laser one gets his bonuses for not moving, and the demolisher ones get closer in order to shot with the shorter range demolisher canon. You'd say it's a bad idea to have them mixed like that. Either full laser or full demolisher.

Did not see that Land Raiders could have flare shield as well (still can't find it though, but I might miss some Legion specific bonuses). I imagined I could shoot the Spartan with vindicators or punch it in cc, and use havocs to shoot Land Raiders (they have tank Hunter, so imagined they'd be able to glance it to death if needed). But aggreed if multiple flare shielded heavies, I won't do a thing.

Same regarding artillery, I imagined that the 36" range of the havocs would make it difficult to hide it from both squads (not to mention the walking Tyrants). But I'm maybe underestimating the the table size (or overestimating my weapon range).

Will need to rework that list then !

I think that your gunline idea could work but you need some good indirect fire to threaten enemy artillery and possibly even Spartans. Medusa’s can provide some good AT and can even punch a spartan due to barrage hitting side armor and therefore avoiding the flare shields. Could go legion for them or take a cheap allied militia Detachment with the tougher artillery Medusa’s (they get a dedicated AT round as well).

Yep, in my initial, very first list, I had 2 Medusa (was hesitating with Basilisk), but with phosphex shells. Then I realised that Tyrant Siege Terminator were not an elite choice. That would require to remove one of the Iron Havocs in order to fit them in. Now, If flare shields only work on front armour, then I guess it will be hard to hide ones flanks from all the threats possible. Could squeeze 2 Medusa in instead of the missile Havocks then (but will I not loose too much of anti-air firepower doing so ?)

In my experience AA isn’t that big of an issue, but you local group will help you decide that. Could get away with an aegis line with Quad-auto, or if you have a LoW slot free, stick in an Orbital Wing with a thunderbolt (cheap as chips, decent AA and ground attack)