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This proposal is one to make a few things occur, and stemmed from the vehicles ramming people thread (which I didn't want to derail):

Coming Through!

Any model, when it moves, may move through any unit which comprises entirely of models with a lower Wounds Characteristic than itself. If the final position of this model overlaps an enemy model, the opposing player must move the model out of the way, leaving it within 1" of this model. If there is no room for the model to be moved out of the way, then the original model may not be moved here. The final position of the model may not overlap a friendly model.

Coming Through is used at any point in which a model moves - movement, charging, falling back, consolidating, heroic intervention, etc.


The effects I can see that this will have:

1: Heavy units barging through chaff - got a thin screen of guardsmen hiding your russes? it might slow down some orks boys, or a unit of marines, but not the terminators, or ogryns, or a carnifex, or a stompa.

2: A real use for transports. Fed up of your stuff getting slowed down by interfering infantry - jump in a battlewagon, and just run them down.

3: Is your Gargantuan Squiggoth stuck in combat due to 3 annoyingly placed guardsmen? not any more, it ain't!

4: heavy infantry will have an actual advantage over light infantry, and heavier infantry will have an advantage over them.

5: hiding your warlord in a little bubble of somehow impenetrable guardsmen? not from Mister Dreadnaught, you're not!


Rules that will need to be tweaked to accommodate this:

1: Any unit moved through during a charge must be declared as a charge target (so can overwatch)
2: Any unit moved into within 1" during the movement phase may overwatch at the start of the CC phase (as if the charge were declared then).
3: (if not already covered by the rules) a unit which moved to within 1" of a unit counts as being in combat, so cannot shoot or declare a charge, but doesn't count as having charged. (this represents successfully slowing them down with chaff!)


So, I think that this will add an interesting element to the game. What do you all think?

While realistic, and I like it, it would radically re-define the game. Also, who chooses where their models end up after being "pushed"? The pusher or the pushed?

I could see it making units be able to pass thru other units, such as how FLY works, but without landing on top of those units.

I would like to see it implemented as a sort of bombing run rule for infantry units. Your movement for the Stompa would have to be fixed, say 10-20", and any unit you pass over takes say 1 Melee attack per model. So if you pass over a squad of guard, you could do 10 melee attacks, but you have to go your minimum movement, and that would require positioning, or you couldn't use it.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
While realistic, and I like it, it would radically re-define the game. Also, who chooses where their models end up after being "pushed"? The pusher or the pushed?

Always the unit who is being pushed, though it would only affect it if the model lands on them, and then they have to move to within combat range - so not a lot of issues really.

I could see it making units be able to pass thru other units, such as how FLY works, but without landing on top of those units.

That's kinda the idea - a strung-out unit of gretchin shouldn't stop a leviathan dreadnaught from moving through. However, if the 'naught tries to move through and gets caught in the unit, they end up in combat - the chaff will be doing its job, distracting it and stopping it from shooting. It'll fight and then walk on in the next turn, but the chaff distraction will have helped.

I would like to see it implemented as a sort of bombing run rule for infantry units. Your movement for the Stompa would have to be fixed, say 10-20", and any unit you pass over takes say 1 Melee attack per model. So if you pass over a squad of guard, you could do 10 melee attacks, but you have to go your minimum movement, and that would require positioning, or you couldn't use it.

I would like to see it expanded for bigger units, EG stompas actually stomping. Meganobs and bullgryns doing hammer of wrath style hits as they slam through (ld check to avoid damage - the unit might just move out of the way). I would probably keep it as simple as vehicles & monsters hurt infantry, superheavies & gargantuan hurt everything.

I'd even like to see the bigger, more unwieldy units (stompas, garg squiggoths, tyranid giant monsters) having to move their full move when they charge (pick a direction and move), only stopping if they meet something bigger, and then lashing out at whatever is close enough when they're done. an infantry horde shouldn't slow down a stompa, and a stompa shouldn't stop when they get within 1" of the horde. a rule like "each model which must be moved suffers a mortal wound on a roll of a 4+" when something this big charges in. if they meet something as big/bigger than themselves, they have to fight it - the intervening infantry is just a distraction.

It makes it more cinematic to me, if bigger models can bully smaller ones out of the way. The only real exception I'd add is that swarms count as single wound models for this - it makes no sense for rippers to push terminators around!

I like the idea of big stuff being able to rush through smaller stuff, but I have concerns about the exact implementation here. Some thoughts:

* As Fezzik suggested, I'd allow big units to move over little units, but I probably wouldn't allow them to end their movement on top of or within 1" of them. Having to reposition models due to an opponent's rule has always lead to a lot of headaches in the past even though you've nipped the worst of them in the bud by preventing the big unit from landing in a given spot if the smaller models can't be positioned a certain way. Still, you're opening the door for things like coherency problems, distance measuring arguments, etc plus threatening to slow the game down at least a bit by adding an extra batch of movement to the game.

Letting big stuff move over little stuff is pretty straightforward and consistent with other similar rules in the game.

* Out of turn activations, even just for charging and overwatch, should probably be done sparingly. Remember all the complications the old Soul Burst rules introduced?

* If you want to let big things hurt little things by moving over them, consider making case-by-case special rules or strats for that. There are already several rule that reflect units doing damage as they move through enemy units (bomb weapons, that one ork strat, the carnifex's Living Battering Ram rule, that reaver jetbike strat, etc.). It's probably best to try to keep any similar rules in line with those that already exist.

* Basing who can move through whom on wounds feels slightly odd to me. I'm not sure my 6 wound phoenix lord should be great at giving the shoulder to a 2 wound terminator that's ten times his weight. My strength/toughness 5 raider probably shouldn't be able to budge aside a carnifex with greater strength/toughness but lower wounds. There's maybe an argument to bring back the old bulky/very bulky keywords here or else to introduce a size stat.

I like the overall concept. I'd just want to keep things simple and easy to resolve.

I can see the issue with characters having disproportional wound counts to other things. It could be solved case-by-case, perhaps.

Using Strength is an option, and would stop primaris being overly dangerous, but would throw more issues in as guardsmen will be bullied around by everyone S4 or more. Without actually playtesting both variants, I can't really say which I think would work better.

Bringing back the keywords of Bulky and Very Bulky might work. I'd also like to see light & Heavy added for vehicles.

Then the order would be:

Infantry<Bulky><V. Bulky><Light Vehicle><Vehicle><Monster><Heavy Vehicle><Superheavy><Gargantuan

I'd like to see rhinos pushing landspeeders aside, and dreadnaughts barging past sentinels. Monsters would be able to stop vehicles, but not heavy vehicles.

Potentially, we could introduce a roll-off approach, where both players roll D6+S for the unit involved, and if the "defender" wins they stop the unit moving through - treat it as a charge instead.

problem is you have the flipside - a horde of orks will not be stopped by a Carnifex, though it would probably kill a lot of them as they run past and around it. It's hard to add this sort of rule (for realism) without completely changing the nature of the game...>