Switch Theme:

Orks are weak?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




been watching alot of battlereports, and it seems like orc armies are very weak in 8th? I cant see a reason to play ork when tyranid can do anything they can better
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Timely. Just played Orks VS Nids.ITC mission 1.
Orks won 29-22.
/cast dispel.

Orks are in a good spot as of now despite what some batreps may demonstrate. Sure they arent ultra top tier but very few armies are right now.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




what kind of orc lists are winning?
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

Multiple SSAGs, backed by mekguns, lootas, big boys units sprinkled to taste.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




whats a SSAG?
   
Made in ca
Krazed Killa Kan




Claremont, ON

Supa Shokk attack gun from the vigallus book. It's down right awesome. Shoot it twice and take out repulsors, knights, anything big and scary. it's random but can be highly effective.

Smasha guns are great. Boy blobs of 30 are nice with the get one free strat that can respawn.

Lottas are excellent

Orks have a lot of great toys and can win quite easily if the dice are hot. But's that's orks, random smashy fun

2500 4000 4000 5000 5000
DE 2500 TS: 2500 2500  
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Orks are one of the less forgiving armies that relies in part on luck which could swing a battle report and give the wrong impression of the faction and because it relies more on melee than other factions it's a more difficult to play.

It should be noted that Boyz need a Weirdboy with the Da Jump psychic power before they become tournament tier IMO. Gretchin are definitely one of the top Ork units. There are other units which aren't terrible either, Painboys, Kommandos, Stormboyz, Gorkanauts, Dakkajets. Choosing the right combinations of Klans, Specialist Detachments, Relics and WL trait for your Detachments and Characters has a big impact and we see a lot of sameyness in this department for competitive Orks lists.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





keep in mind if you're looking at starting a new ork army that Orks are a big hoard army, and 40k changes fast these days, by time you have a Ork army assmbled and painted (even just a quick table top level with contrast) you're proably going to be looking at the meta having changed. Play what you have fun with and what you like, not what is the most OMG OP faction.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




New Mexico, USA

Orks are very powerful right now provided you spam the following:

- Big Meks with Shokk Attack gun; one with the relic version
- Lootas with the Bad Moons clan using the shoot twice strat
- 30-strong Boyz mobs teleported into your opponent's face by weirdboys using the Da Jump power
- Mek Guns (Principally Smashas and Traktor Kannons, but also maybe Kustom Mega Kannons)
- Dakkajets
- Minimum-size throwaway grots units for CP farming and backfield objective camping

So basically you take a shooty army list with the boyz bringing some close combat punch that will throw your opponent off his game due to there extreme mobility. The closer you follow this formula, the stronger your Orks will be, but of course the less people will respect you because it'll be obvious that you're a metagame-following powergamey win-at-all-costs jerk. The more you deviate from this formula, the weaker your Orks will get and you'll get trashed by the metagame-following powergamey win-at-all-costs jerks.

Pick your poison.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/11 19:59:42


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Weak? No.
A bit bland? Kind of. They don't have that many strong builds. If you want to play green tide you are stuck with Evil Sunz because their speed boost helps foot sloggers...even though they are supposed to be the vehicle army.

If you run Snake Boys you pretty much can't take Pain Boyz because the FNP doesn't stack.

Wartrikes are a disappointment, and if you aren't taking a weirdboy and want to get into melee you aren't doing it right.

Mek Gunz are pretty much a must have if you want to play competitively because they provide reliable long range damage. A pity they are bloody expensive in terms of money.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




The Ork codex in general right now isn't particularly strong, but there are some competitive builds that are able to put up a strong fight against a fair amount of the metagame right now.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

To be fair, in the wake of revamped Marines, most Codexes aren't looking too strong. I'd also be surprised if any single Dex had more than a handful of competitive builds in it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/11 20:10:28


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 flandarz wrote:
To be fair, in the wake of revamped Marines, most Codexes aren't looking too strong. I'd also be surprised if any single Dex had more than a handful of competitive builds in it.


Orks were kind of bland even before the new marines though.
Like, is there any reason to take Snake Bites, Blood Axes, Kommandos, Nobs, any buggy that's not the skrapjet or KKB, or burnas?

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
 flandarz wrote:
To be fair, in the wake of revamped Marines, most Codexes aren't looking too strong. I'd also be surprised if any single Dex had more than a handful of competitive builds in it.


Orks were kind of bland even before the new marines though.
Like, is there any reason to take Snake Bites, Blood Axes, Kommandos, Nobs, any buggy that's not the skrapjet or KKB, or burnas?

I've seen no competitive lists with any of the buggies in, Skrapjet and KBB are massively overpriced like all the others.
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I can't really argue that, but again that kinda applies to a lot of armies, both before and now. Pick an army and, as you just did, you can find at least 1/3rd of its options that are "why would you take this when you can take that instead". Which is really just a competitive issue, to be fair. In a more casual game, you could field about anything and as long as you ain't playing the latest and greatest net-list, you'll do fine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/11 20:20:26


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




From my experience of losing with orks it seems they are not so much weak as extremely fragile, you get basically one shot with them and anything short of near total victory on the first or possibly second turns and you simply lack the ability to absorb damage to have enough left later.

with luck they can do well with some units at range, but they are fragile and somewhat predictable in what they have to do - they also suffer from a lot of armies being able to generate high volumes of S4 and above firepower potentially with AP-1 which is hard to absorb.

they seem to do a lot better when your opponent is geared up to face marines though when you bring green tide, and orks do have a few options to deal with people who seem to forget anything other than auto hit flamers and rapid fire anti infantry guns (e.g. kans do ok against that)

but you need to catch your opponent off guard, hit them hard and hit them fast, and then have a bit of luck - anyone who expects to face orks with a half decent idea of what you may have (e.g. green tide or more 'toys') can easily prepare

that said they are still fun to play
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I assume since ur jumping the boyz you should only bring slugga/choppa ?
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

Bringing a mix is good. Boyz are already pretty good at CC, so having some extra shots to weaken an infantry line or in case you fail the charge (which even with Evil Sunz and reroll is still like 1 in 5 times).
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




bat702 wrote:
I assume since ur jumping the boyz you should only bring slugga/choppa ?


have found personally having a few shoota in there works, have seldom had all 30 in a mob actually fight and having a couple of models who can easily be lost as overwatch casualties but who are potentially marginally useful outside assaults occasionally works

typical unit here is 20 slugga/choppa, 9 shoota and the nob, largely because these are the models I have, so far they tend to hurt anything they can catch (well anything the 20 or so that at best fight can actually hurt, T5 and good armour dilutes them somewhat), and having a few shoota doesn't significantly change the end result (they either bounce off buy a lot or its overkill anyway) but the couple of ranged shots has killed a couple of models
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Compared to the new gak, everyone is weak. Ever heard of the GK? Me neither.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




bat702 wrote:
been watching alot of battlereports, and it seems like orc armies are very weak in 8th? I cant see a reason to play ork when tyranid can do anything they can better


I hate to be pedantic, but its Ork not orc, that always bothers me for some reason.

Orkz are in a better place then they were in say 7th or 6th edition. But not by a whole lot. A number of players will sit here and tell you how Orkz are OP and need nerfs, the truth is that we have a couple of units that are good and we are required to spam the ever loving crap out of them in order to compete.

The aforementioned SSAG (Supa Shokk Attack Gun) is a must take, but as previously mentioned, it is EXTREMELY swingy. Its 2D6 for shots and strength. If you roll low you are pretty much screwed from the start for that shooting phase. But on the flipside if you roll well, you can theoretically one shot a knight. I have, for instance, shot a Knight with a SSAG, I rolled 11 for number of shots and 12 for strength (Near miracle) and proceeded to get better then average hit rolls, I ended up getting 8 hits on a Knight which resulted in 7 wounds against his 4+ Invuln save, he saved 1 and I then proceeded to roll 30 damage which killed him instantly. But, for every amazing story like this you will have 100+ heartbreaking ones where the SSAG did nothing.

Mek Gunz are a must take which sucks because they are $50 a pop and you take them in batteries of 6. I recommend using a Trukk and a Single Mek Gun kit to mass produce them. There are video's on youtube on how to do this. They are only competitive though if you take them as smashas and occasionally as Traktor kannons, KMK's are just too expensive.

Grotz are useless.....and sadly the best unit in the ork army. You can take 30 of them in 3 squads to fill out a Battalion troop slot for 90pts, then they can act as Grot shields for Lootas or your Big Mek when the sniper invariably kills your Grot Oiler assistant. Don't expect them to kill anything or to tie up a unit in CC. They are literally there to fill a slot and die in droves, and of course, sit on objectives.

Honestly, those are the only 3 truly competitive units we have. Lootas used to be highly competitive, but only if you took 2 squads and used 5 or 6 CP a turn on them. As it currently stands they are good, but not nearly as good as they once were.

Tankbustas can fill a need in an ork list, especially as a suicide unit.

Boyz are still competitive to a degree, but since they got a price hike they have been lagging behind and I see more and more competitive lists being built around Grotz while only taking 1-3 units of boyz (2 being most common) when in prior editions it wasn't at all uncommon to face an ork with 180+ ork boyz on the table.

Beyond that I can tell you to avoid Burna's, basically the entire FA slot (exception to Stormboyz a bit and the occasional Dakkajet) avoid anything that is a walker in the ork list that isn't a gorkanaut and even he is questionable in today's meta. Nobz are useless in basically all ways, Ghaz is overpriced and slow...The Stompa....dear god above, do not buy a stompa. That thing will sit on your shelf for years at a time because its just so crappy.

I hope this helps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/14 13:39:15


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I think there's multiple tiers of strength when you're talking about general 40k games.

At the top, there's "I'm actually going to big tournament events where people are taking the meta hotness" level. As other posters have said, there's basically one ork build that fits this bill atm: SSAG big meks, boyz blobs, mek gunz, and Dakkajets.

In the middle, there's "I'm playing at a fairly normal 40k club, and I want to play the Orks while not getting shitstomped." A lot more stuff opens up here. Deep Striking Gorkanauts or Deff Dreads can be fun, Stormboyz, evil sunz footslogging hordes, Deffskulls KMB spam, Tankbustas, etc.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





over the weekend I was in a tournament. There was a IH player that just stoped everyone, but lost to an ork player on the last round. It was a close game, but the ork player tabled the IH player on the last round. Ork player had 2 SAG and 1 SSAG and several big mek guns.
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Ratius wrote:
Multiple SSAGs, backed by mekguns, lootas, big boys units sprinkled to taste.


how are you taking multiple SSAG its a relic. my understanding is you can only have 1 in your army.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in ie
Norn Queen






Dublin, Ireland

I meant 1 SSAG and multiple other SAGs. Was in a hurry

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

"Feelin' goods, good enough". 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 Ratius wrote:
I meant 1 SSAG and multiple other SAGs. Was in a hurry


i figured... but I was somehow hoping for a loophole

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: