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Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




jct25 M1 , derby

hi all

a quick question

weve just started playing BB
weve noticed if you play with the figures in the box 11 players each humans & orcs
the orcs always wins & kick the daylights out of the humans

do we have to start really building our teams for the humans to win?

or can the humans win & its just the other player whos not playing them properly

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/13 18:49:23


Massive ultramarines army

BloodBowl: Orcs, Humans Lizardmen, Goblins & Skaven
Zombicide
X wing 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut





The teams from the starter box are both incomplete "demo" teams. They are however both quite symmetric in their shortcomings. Both are missing 2 blitzers and 1 big guy.

I must admit I've never played a human or orc team with only 2 blitzers. Also never ever seen someone else play with only 2 blitzers.

Would be fun to try humans in the box against one of you to see if you're really unbeatable.

Humans have tier 2 in some tournaments while orcs are tier 1.

It also heavily depend on playstyles. If both teams are fighting as much as possible, orcs win. Humans have better finesse and ball play capabilities. Require more planning and tactics.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/11/25 11:40:32


 
   
Made in us
Waaagh! Warbiker





I've been playing Blood Bowl for about 25 years, and even back then the starter teams were the same orc and human teams found in today's starter box set. That's because they work very well in teaching new players the fundamentals of the game; orcs for bashing and caging, and humans for throwing, running, dodging, etc. Arguably elves would be better at that than humans, but I think newer players could get suckered into thinking that Agility 4 is all you need to play the game.

Orcs are the easier team to learn to play with, and I'm not surprised newbies are winning more with them than humans. However, the starter teams with their missing blitzers and big guys are still fairly balanced in my opinion, especially with the recently lowered price of human catchers from 70k to 60k. Once a new player starts learning more of the fundamental tactics of the game they should begin to hold their own against the orcs. The player just needs to learn to adapt to different playstyles when playing different teams.

Oh, and welcome to Blood Bowl! It's GW's best game and rule set of the many games they have released over the decades.

edit: If you are enjoying the base starter set at all, consider getting the "Death Zone"/Almanac expansion with all the teams. Or you could just download the old competition rules (CRP https://www.thenaf.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/CRP1.pdf), which not much was changed from for the new edition. The game opens up to a whole new, amazing level once you get beyond the starter orc and human teams.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/11/26 15:28:31


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Virginia

You need to be passing from my limited experience. I played orcs and chaos, those two teams just want to pound on you and the 2 blitzers you get in the box aren’t enough. Convert two more blitzers from your guys (or get another box) and you’ll have more fun.

Last game I played with Choas I won 2-1, his TD was from passing and I spent most of the game just pummeling him. I slowly ran two TDs and he had 5 guys in the dugout recovering.

Also another tip: always try to stand your guys up early. Yes you might fail and get a turnover but you could also fail a block or pickup and get a turnover anyway with your dudes on the floor. 11 guys on their feet > a few squares of ball movement in most cases.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

No, humans can win from the box set. The humans are a bit more of a finesse team while the orks are a simple sledge hammer.

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Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Easy E wrote:
No, humans can win from the box set. The humans are a bit more of a finesse team while the orks are a simple sledge hammer.


Yeah, I'd say if both players were just playing with their players all spread out willy nilly and mostly just scoring by murdering most of the enemy team then scoring easy TD's once there's only a few guys left, orks would generally win.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 rockgod2304 wrote:
weve just started playing BB... weve noticed if you play with the figures in the box... the orcs always wins & kick the daylights out of the humans


This would only be true if the Ork player was (correctly) playing the Ork team bashy, while the Human player was (quite INcorrectly) playing the Humans bashy.

Orks are one of the BEST bashy teams out of all the 20+ official GW Blood Bowl teams. They just are. If Humans try to play bashy against a specialized bashy team, like Chaos or Orks, then they're gonna get their skulls kicked in. Just that simple, no two ways about it.

Now Humans aren't as fast as Scavens or Elves, nor as they as good as Scavens & Elves at handling the ball (Passing & Catching). But once a Human team gets their mitts on one of those panzy teams, then it's the Humans that are doing the skull kicking.

And while Humans aren't as fast or skilled as Scavens or Elves, they ARE faster and better ball handlers than slow, bashy teams like Dwarves & Orks.

When playing against Orks the Human player needs to focus on keeping out of base to base with the Orks, and using the Passers & Catchers to keep the ball in the part of the board where the Ork team ISN'T.

Blood Bowl is, IM not so HO, one of GW's best games because their is actually some tactical depth to it. The influence of dice can be minimized, and games are rarely decided by the Special Rule of the Month Club. Just because Elves are faster & more skilled doesn't mean they get an auto-win over slow, tough teams like Orks & Dwarves. And just because Orks have high Strength & Armor values, it doesn't mean they get an auto win over Humans every time.

But for either of those outcomes to happen, the player has to have a bit of finesse, and be able to think a move or so ahead.

BTW, welcome to Blood Bowl.
   
Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




jct25 M1 , derby

many thanks

wheres the team management?

season 1 or the almanac ?

Massive ultramarines army

BloodBowl: Orcs, Humans Lizardmen, Goblins & Skaven
Zombicide
X wing 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





All the League and team management rules you need are in the Inaugural Almanac.

Season 1 is good for inducements and the 2018 team releases: chaos chosen, Nurgle's rotters, and dark elves. Season 2 is good for 2019 teams: undead, woodies, halflings, and lizardmen. Along with the team rosters you get special star players, inducements, and loads of articles. These books are not strictly necessary, and most of the teams have updated rules in the Inaugural Almanac.
   
Made in az
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






phydaux wrote:
 rockgod2304 wrote:
weve just started playing BB... weve noticed if you play with the figures in the box... the orcs always wins & kick the daylights out of the humans


This would only be true if the Ork player was (correctly) playing the Ork team bashy, while the Human player was (quite INcorrectly) playing the Humans bashy.

Orks are one of the BEST bashy teams out of all the 20+ official GW Blood Bowl teams. They just are. If Humans try to play bashy against a specialized bashy team, like Chaos or Orks, then they're gonna get their skulls kicked in. Just that simple, no two ways about it.

Now Humans aren't as fast as Scavens or Elves, nor as they as good as Scavens & Elves at handling the ball (Passing & Catching). But once a Human team gets their mitts on one of those panzy teams, then it's the Humans that are doing the skull kicking.

And while Humans aren't as fast or skilled as Scavens or Elves, they ARE faster and better ball handlers than slow, bashy teams like Dwarves & Orks.

When playing against Orks the Human player needs to focus on keeping out of base to base with the Orks, and using the Passers & Catchers to keep the ball in the part of the board where the Ork team ISN'T.

Blood Bowl is, IM not so HO, one of GW's best games because their is actually some tactical depth to it. The influence of dice can be minimized, and games are rarely decided by the Special Rule of the Month Club. Just because Elves are faster & more skilled doesn't mean they get an auto-win over slow, tough teams like Orks & Dwarves. And just because Orks have high Strength & Armor values, it doesn't mean they get an auto win over Humans every time.

But for either of those outcomes to happen, the player has to have a bit of finesse, and be able to think a move or so ahead.

BTW, welcome to Blood Bowl.


I'm going to correct you on a couple of points: out of the box Humans are *better* ball handlers than Skaven or Elves.

Here's why -

1. Not all Skaven teams start with the Thrower, and if they don't they do not have a player with Sure Hands. No Elf teams start with Sure Hands. Humans (nearly always) do. 3+ with a built in reroll is better than a flat 2+.
2. Skaven don't start with any other ball handling skills (bar the thrower) so you always have to have a team RR available if you're going to pickup, pass or catch with your gutter runners. Humans have a Sure Hands, Pass thrower and a Catch Catcher.
3. I'll give you that Elves are better once they have the ball in hand - the passing game with Pro Elves in particular is a joy. But then again, you have DE who start with no ball handling skills of any kind at all.
4. In a league format, humans can do quite well by the virtue of being cheap (catchers at 60k, yes please, I'll have 3) and versatile.

I'll also say as a purely opinion, Humans are some of the most fun teams you can play; every style of play is possible. I've pulled off some really heroic stuff with my humans (and I've also had my share of whippings too).
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




The NAF tabulates Blood Bowl tournament results, and has tiered the various official & semi-official Blood Bowl teams. As of October 2019 Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Skaven, Orks, Dwarves, and Chaos Dwarves are all Tier 1 (plus a few others), while Humans, High Elves, and Pro Elves (and a few others) are Tier 2.

The fact of the matter is Blood Bowl is a table top strategy game that may as well have "Avalon Hill" on the outside of the box. There is a lot of skill and depth of play to it, more so that any other GW game, IMO.

And I, also, consider myself primarily a Humans player. I'll be playing them at a NAF tournament end of next month.
   
Made in us
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






phydaux wrote:
The NAF tabulates Blood Bowl tournament results, and has tiered the various official & semi-official Blood Bowl teams. As of October 2019 Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Skaven, Orks, Dwarves, and Chaos Dwarves are all Tier 1 (plus a few others), while Humans, High Elves, and Pro Elves (and a few others) are Tier 2.

The fact of the matter is Blood Bowl is a table top strategy game that may as well have "Avalon Hill" on the outside of the box. There is a lot of skill and depth of play to it, more so that any other GW game, IMO.

And I, also, consider myself primarily a Humans player. I'll be playing them at a NAF tournament end of next month.


It's a superb game that can be played at lot of different levels.

I play a lot on FUMBBL and the top players there are like chess masters - the way they can plan several moves and turns ahead and calculate relative probabilities is incredible.

I've had fun with my humans team, but I don't think they are very competitive, especially now they are mid TV (1600 ish); they get outguarded and outbashed by almost everyone.

What TV is the NAF tournament? I expect humans are pretty competitive at 1000-1100 range.
   
Made in gb
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper




jct25 M1 , derby

hi all

Thanks for your posts

update

3 months on for 1st playing

just starting to get a league going
i play humans & my mate plays orcs. i consistently beat the orcs

i do have a couple of questions / observations.....

1st throwing a long bomb & not completing the pass. it bounces 3 times by only 1 sq each time. (you've just thrown it nearly half the length of the pitch) but still only bounces 1 sq the same as if you've dropped it

being a bit more realistic bounce would be :
quick pass & short pass scatter 1sq per bounce .
long pass scatter D2 sq's 1st bounce D2 sq's 2 bounce 1 sq last bounce,
Long bomb scatter D3 sq's 1st bounce D2 sq's 2 bounce 1 sq last bounce,

2nd Going for it. fall on a 1
but if youve sprinted your max speed & you Go For It once then you Go For It again fall on a 1 & 2 to represent your stretching every sinew to make that last sq of movement

whats your thoughts

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/13 18:48:32


Massive ultramarines army

BloodBowl: Orcs, Humans Lizardmen, Goblins & Skaven
Zombicide
X wing 
   
Made in gb
Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne






No thanks - GFIs are annoying enough failing on a 1 and I cant think of any game scenario where the scatter distance of a failed pass would make a real difference. But you know, house rule all you like.

Who throws long bombs anyway, apart from ag5 accurate/strong arm wood elves?

What rosters have you been playing with? Just 1000tv rookies?
Could I suggest you try 1100tv with a few skills to make it more interesting?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 rockgod2304 wrote:

just starting to get a league going
i play humans & my mate plays orcs. i consistently beat the orcs

i do have a couple of questions / observations.....

1st throwing a long bomb & not completing the pass. it bounces 3 times by only 1 sq each time. (you've just thrown it nearly half the length of the pitch) but still only bounces 1 sq the same as if you've dropped it

being a bit more realistic bounce would be :
quick pass & short pass scatter 1sq per bounce .
long pass scatter D2 sq's 1st bounce D2 sq's 2 bounce 1 sq last bounce,
Long bomb scatter D3 sq's 1st bounce D2 sq's 2 bounce 1 sq last bounce,

2nd Going for it. fall on a 1
but if youve sprinted your max speed & you Go For It once then you Go For It again fall on a 1 & 2 to represent your stretching every sinew to make that last sq of movement

whats your thoughts



Remember as originally written Blood bowl has some strange shaped balls and an 'astrogranite' pitch, which was used as the reason for the odd behaviour.

Now of course that isn't needed, and yes the mechanics don't always make sense. It is however a fairly rules heavy game so having as many things standardised as possible makes sense for easy recall.

As for the two starting teams...

Humans
90k Blitzer
90k Blitzer
70k Thrower
70k Thrower
60k Catcher
60k Catcher
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Re-Roll
50k Re-Roll
50k Re-Roll
10k 1 Fan Factor
900k

Orcs
80k Blitzer
80k Blitzer
80k Black Orc
80k Black Orc
70k Thrower
70k Thrower
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
50k Lineman
60k Re-Roll
60k Re-Roll
20k 2 Fan Factor
900k

Using these two line ups will be a good match-up for starting players.

The Orcs are stronger, the humans faster and more agile with an extra re-roll.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






The three scatters you roll aren't bounces - if they were then a model in any of those locations would have to attempt to pick up. Only models under the final location or the subsequent single bounce (if that square is empty) have to pick up.
   
 
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