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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Greetings,

Is was looking at a very limited data set (my own stuff) and found some interesting details.

The best selling genre seems to be Sci-fi related materials, with Historical based games coming in a distant second. Fantasy and other genres appear to be even further back. The popularity of my game reviews by genre follow a similar trend.

When I break it down by "Type" I am seeing MvM is the biggest seller, but skirmish (in this case squad v squad) is close behind. Big Battle games are third, but not that far off. Again, my review popularity also follows this trend.

Does this data jive with your observations or experience?




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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Cheltenham, UK

Seems legit.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Eh I'd say sci-fi and fantasy sell more than historical; however I've on real connection to the historical market to really make a firm argument.

I would say that its easier to notice that scifi and fantasy tends to market itself more heavily and is bolstered, in the miniatures world, by GW who cover both areas and put out a MASSIVE amount of marketing.

From what I can gather historical games advertise far less in general. I think they rely more heavily on an older established market that ticks over; whilst fantasy and sci-fi reach out to younger and newer gamers and are more likely to recruit younger people (who grow up to be long term customers).


You can see this generational aspect in casual media; many hhistorical groups are full of older people and are often very male dominated; fantasy and sci-fi groups are often a much broader spread of ages and have a growing female population.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






In games in general (not just tabletop wargames) I have noticed in recent years that the trends seem to be:

1: Unicorns, sloths, pandas and any other species which the general mood is one of consumeristic brainwashing - mugs in supermarkets shaped like them, plush toys shaped like them, bedsheets, clothes, etc. etc. Flamingos will be next.

2: Silliness. Bears vs babies, unstable unicorns, cards against humanity, exploding kittens - they all take a fairly basic game format and make it interesting and fun by adding a lot of weird, wacky, silly and often NSFW content to bulk it out. I see these games in a lot of shops. Moreso even than GW games.

Those are my observations as a cynical consumer, I've not achieved publication on anything (yet!) so have none of my own data for this.

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Cheltenham, UK

I assumed we were taking miniatures games rather than boardgames or cardgames.

I think historical does outsell fantasy, because there's a dedicated historical gaming community that, whilst relatively small, thinks nothing of buying *vast* armies of miniatures. That is then bolstered by popular mainstream games, like Bolt Action and... Well, like Bolt Action.

The fantasy market is dominated by D&D more than anything GW does (beware of our local echo chamber) but these buyers tend to buy little and often: whatever they need for their next campaign. They aren't always very fussy about quality.

Sci-fi might be number one, or it might be number two. It partly depends on whether something is sci-fi or historical (steampunk) or sci-fi or fantasy (Warmahordes). 40k is the Big Dog in that room and its selling power cannot be overestimated. Whether it could outsell historical minis all on its own depends on whether you mean by value (yes) or volume (probably not).

But for the purposes of this forum and the genre most likely to find a receptive audience, I firmly believe that the answer is sci-fi. However, I also think that designers should write the games they want to play, not the games they want to sell. Because if you've ever played a game that felt half-finished or the under-baked execution of a good central idea, the odds are that it was because someone was writing a game to sell instead of one to play.

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 precinctomega wrote:


But for the purposes of this forum and the genre most likely to find a receptive audience, I firmly believe that the answer is sci-fi. However, I also think that designers should write the games they want to play, not the games they want to sell. Because if you've ever played a game that felt half-finished or the under-baked execution of a good central idea, the odds are that it was because someone was writing a game to sell instead of one to play.


Totally agree! I was going to add something like that to my original post, but decided to see what cropped up in the thread naturally and removed it. I agree 100% that a designer should pretty much ONLY design games for themselves. If other people like it "bully", but if you design for yourself you at least know you will get 1 player. You!

I have always heard that today's Sci-fi gamer is tomorrow's Historical gamer.

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Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

Interesting, these observations contradict the industry standard that fantasy is the safe bet and sci fi is the risky option.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





I think you're looking at two different markets.

Fantasy and Science Fiction likely outsell Historical with regard to board games, computer games, etc.

There is a large community though, of historical wargamers who are quietly buying up large armies, and building tables for all sorts of historical wargames. However, the nature of historical wargaming is the lack of IP - so it's not attractive to a lot of new companies. Many historical miniatures "companies" are still a couple of guys making metal miniatures in their shed, with a small list of long-term clients, etc.

For big numbers, Kickstarter craze, youth with disposable income...I think the more weird, the better it sells. But for long term investment? I'd imagine historical kits are far less fad-dependent. Look at some of the major Kickstarter games - everyone thinking they'll be the next GW, or that the GW sales model is attainable in a short term/small company area.

Fantasy and Sci-Fi games disappear constantly after 2-3 years and just dry up on the vine. The Kickstarter may have been good, but in 10-15-20 years...will there be a market for that game/models outside of eBay for collectors? If, on the other hand, you make a Panzer III model...it could go on indefinitely. You won't be making a $2.3 million Kickstarter with it, but if you make a good product you can sell it for as long as WW2 is played in wargames, which will be a long time.

Look at scale model companies. Revell and other companies continue to re-release model kits designed in the 50's and 60's because modelers are still buying them and making them.

So, I'd argue that from a miniatures perspective, a well done line of miniatures for a popular war will serve you well.

For a quick buck and a flash-fire gaming effort? Something fantasy or sci-fi with a heap of Kickstarter excitement will do you pretty solid, but it may fizzle out real quick.
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

I was referring to that common industry wisdom that fantasy vastly outsells sci fi than consider getting Historical in the equation

I feel Historical can as a genre be more popular and maybe outsell sci fi and fantasy, but the historical nature allows anybody to make miniatures for them and the market is saturated in many small manufacturers.

And indeed nobody will ever be the "next GW" not even GW can become the next GW at the current market, GW was an ideal situation that cannot be easily repeated, if at all.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Oh, I agree. Sadly we're seeing quite the opposite. It's alarming how many hugely successful (with regard to funding) Kickstarters end up completely destroying the companies who came up with them, by trying way too hard and promising way too much. That's a discussion for another thread I suppose.

I think everyone is more or less paddling upstream with the current "content overload" and super short attention span of consumers in modern times. There is such a wild abundance of "the next thing", that you could play or buy a new game every day of the week for several years. If you produce a decent product, it'll be mimicked or blatantly copied in short order in some game markets (namely app games, etc.).

In short what I was trying to say (poorly), is that I think it simply depends on what you're producing. If you're going to do a big market Kickstarter board game? I'd say Fantasy. If you're going to do a miniatures line you're safer doing a quality historical line of minis, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/14 21:37:02


 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

i was just revisiting personal numbers and the beginning of CY20 was pretty solid. I do NOT expect this to continue now that the Coronacession will be coming into effect.

In other news, Sci-fi and Model vs. Model is still winning big overall.

Others still seeing or feeling the same?

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MN (Currently in WY)

After Quarter 2 2020 and Sci-fi skirmish or Model-vs-Model is still the main business driver.

Fantasy is a strong second, but there bigger battles seem to be doing better.

Historical is a distant third. :(


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Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

Skirmish definitely seems to be an easier sell at the moment, both in sci-fi and fantasy.

I'm curious what the success rate of solo/co-op games are, but I don't have a good source to look at to get real numbers. I suspect they're decent, though.

Even with several new semi-historical (I say that for covering games like Black Seas and Oak & Iron and so on, which are set in historical periods but not "strict" historicals in the sense of enforcing certain engagements, etc.), they don't seem to be making huge inroads.
   
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

I have no experience, but it seems Fantasy and Fantasy-adjacent games are generally more popular? That might be a contributing factor to why Fantasy doesn't sell as well - thers a glut of options on the market and much more competition.

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Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Just a caveat that these are personal numbers and may not match the *industry*.....

Q3 done, and I am finding that Sci-Fi is still outselling other genres by 3:1.

Historical has surged in the last Q, but that maybe an outlier as more Historical was released using a different pricing strategy.

Model vs. Model still seems to be dominant with Skirmish coming in second. Big Battle still lags behind.

However, overall this year is trending positive and COVID does not seem to have diminished market demand for wargames. Sadly, I do not have any numbers on co-op/solo play, but based on "Best-sellers' on Wargame Vault I would wager they are driving a decent amount of volume right now.

Are you seeing similar trends?

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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




BGG rankings are quite helpful here: https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/More_About_Hotness

There's a video summary of BGG activity as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGV5EwSY39Q

One can only assume that tabletop games most talked about are also the ones with considerable sales.

Of course the top sellers are family and party games, but I don't think that's the branch of the industry we're most interested in. Although Warhammer - the Monopoly of Wargaming mirrors the success of the actual Monopoly
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Cyel wrote:
BGG rankings are quite helpful here: https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/More_About_Hotness

There's a video summary of BGG activity as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGV5EwSY39Q

One can only assume that tabletop games most talked about are also the ones with considerable sales.

Of course the top sellers are family and party games, but I don't think that's the branch of the industry we're most interested in. Although Warhammer - the Monopoly of Wargaming mirrors the success of the actual Monopoly


There also seems to be a lot of "Dudes on a Board" type games in that list.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut





"Dudes on a Board" is a very popular genre.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6EXhwiNVEA This may also shed some light. Interesting how games of very different genres come to the top, heavy Euro, narrative, party game, legacy, light Euro, dudes on the map, dungeon crawl...
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I have seen a trend in sales being driven by Historical content over the last few months

Sci-Fi is still the top dog, but Historical content has been growing. This might be because of the focus of my "fanbase"* or it could be driven by other factors but it is a trend I am noticing.

Anyone else seeing any growth in Historicals in their regions/sales as a genre that sells?



*= Fanbase is such a strong word for what I am trying to say.

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