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This one was so special it necessitated the purchase of a new brick of dice.

http://www.classichammer.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=1313&pid=2875#post_2875

A real nail biter all the way through, and also another stellar example of how cav didn't destroy everything it came up against.

Another battle report!! Guess I'm not being productive at work today. Thanks!

Thanks! The best part was the possibility of getting games in with a new player. I'm not expecting a full on tourney yet, but progress is progress.

Cool batrep.

For those popping in and not clicking the link:


The hosting site I use for pictures is incompatible with dakka. I've tried. That, and the other site could honestly use the traffic.

Cool report. On the subject of Knights ending all I think it is the Bretonnian Lance formation that is at fault as it allows even 5 man units to gain ranks and thus break opponents.

konst80hummel wrote:
Cool report. On the subject of Knights ending all I think it is the Bretonnian Lance formation that is at fault as it allows even 5 man units to gain ranks and thus break opponents.

This one goes all the way back to before I was banned from Warseer. The constant claim was 5 man Knights, regardless of what army they came from, ALWAYS swept the first rank which prevented attacks back and instabroke units on the charge. Mathematically I've shown REPEATEDLY how that isn't the case. The goalpost is then moved constantly to find that one magical match up that makes the urban myth work. Add a character in, which makes them more than 5 man and violates your criteria from the get go, but I can easily sub in a tank Lord to absorb that character's attacks via Challenge if we're plugging and playing. I think it came down to 5 man Khorne Knights at last effort, which can be led around by the nose as they suffer from Frenzy, or I will just feed them Swarms and keep them in place while I deal with the rest of the army.


Also, you needed at least 6 Bret Knights to get the rank bonus. Each rank needed to be a full rank of 3.

Yeah you are right about the 6th knight.
I think it also stems from cavalry charging chaff and routing them overunning into the next squad and locking down a flank. The opponent is then unable to move freely with that part of his force which leads to frustration and the myth about "those bloody Knights"

Regardless of how someone manufactures outliers, the issue is the claim that 5 man cav units front charge 20 man infantry units and always win. That's patently false.

That should be obvious to cool headed reasonable people and not expect it to happen... I know, I know not the greatest demographic among gamers
Stay safe sir and thanks again for the report...

konst80hummel wrote:
That should be obvious to cool headed reasonable people and not expect it to happen... I know, I know not the greatest demographic among gamers
Stay safe sir and thanks again for the report...

Thank you, and hopefully I can manage another soon...

 Just Tony wrote:

konst80hummel wrote:
Cool report. On the subject of Knights ending all I think it is the Bretonnian Lance formation that is at fault as it allows even 5 man units to gain ranks and thus break opponents.

This one goes all the way back to before I was banned from Warseer. The constant claim was 5 man Knights, regardless of what army they came from, ALWAYS swept the first rank which prevented attacks back and instabroke units on the charge. Mathematically I've shown REPEATEDLY how that isn't the case. The goalpost is then moved constantly to find that one magical match up that makes the urban myth work. Add a character in, which makes them more than 5 man and violates your criteria from the get go, but I can easily sub in a tank Lord to absorb that character's attacks via Challenge if we're plugging and playing. I think it came down to 5 man Khorne Knights at last effort, which can be led around by the nose as they suffer from Frenzy, or I will just feed them Swarms and keep them in place while I deal with the rest of the army.


Also, you needed at least 6 Bret Knights to get the rank bonus. Each rank needed to be a full rank of 3.

A little late for this, but for starters, great batrep as always. Keep them coming Tony. People confuse potential with statistical all the time. A unit of 5 knights just by themselves have the POTENTIAL to inflict 5 unsaved wounds, but that potential is a statistical outlier that rarely happens when dice hit the felt. Like you said, placing add-on's like characters, marks or chosen always alters the calculus. We are also talking about the 6th edition where the add-ons were better priced than what you saw in say the 7th, where the add-ons were either built in or very cheap. Throughout my experience of the 6th, I never saw an all cavalry list with one exception, and that list did very poorly in the league that we were in at the time.(dead last actually)

Were people to play an actually balanced game, I invite anyone to dust off a couple of Warhammer Ancient Battle books and play an Imperial Roman Civil War game with them. The bulk of the armies consist of Roman Legionaries who hit each other on 4's, wound on 4's, and save on 3's.(Change attacking Romans on each other to 4,3,4, not that much difference) You basically have a bunch of blocks of infantry that once they are in combat, they generally stay in combat for what seems like forever, with minimal casualties. Having your Roman's break rarely happens, and unless you are able to get a flank in, that line is not going to break. Its basically like playing a Dwarf vs Dwarf army where both are heavy on the infantry.(NO GW infantry either) While challenging in trying to figure out how to win, I am not sure that those who clamored for a more balanced game would be engaged in the game and thus consider it a boor. Bottom line that I would point out is to be careful for you wish for: you might actually get it.

This was incredibly educational to read. Tony and Tiny you guys have taught me a ton