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What the title says, it looks to me like many of the new primaris units are a return to hh ones in both feel and look.

Eliminators are similar to recon squads in the use of camo cloaks, sniper rifles, and infiltration.

Hellblasters have similarities with the new da Interemptors.

Most interestingly, in that they resemble the tactics of a traitor legion, reivers seem to be a return to Night Lords Terror Squads. Terror tactics, infiltration an emphasis on close quarters combat, even the shull faced helms.

Anyone else seeing this?

Legion Recon Squads are still closer to Scouts, to also wear camo cloaks, can have carapace armour, infiltration and snipers. The only similarity that Eliminators have is that they technically do wear power armour - but they come in smaller units and are treated as a support unit instead of a battleline one.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Legion Recon Squads are still closer to Scouts, to also wear camo cloaks, can have carapace armour, infiltration and snipers. The only similarity that Eliminators have is that they technically do wear power armour - but they come in smaller units and are treated as a support unit instead of a battleline one.

Good points. What about the reivers? They seem to be a pretty obvious terror squad redux.

I wouldn't call it bringing back hh units as much as I'd say it's just Guilliman doing his classic thing of pinching units that work well from other people/eras.

HH Units were mostly monoweapon squads that did one job well. Whereas the old 40K tactical marines all had bolters and swapped one or two weapons out for special ones. Essentially we are seeing Guiliman bringing HH combat to 40k.

Remember that the Codex Astartes was composed of tactics lifted from ALL the Primarchs, including the Traitors. They just werent cited or credited...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
His Primarchs story is about his reluctance to use Destroyer squads, so he was already thinking of changes before the Heresy.

Why be reluctant to use Destroyers?

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
HH Units were mostly monoweapon squads that did one job well. Whereas the old 40K tactical marines all had bolters and swapped one or two weapons out for special ones. Essentially we are seeing Guiliman bringing HH combat to 40k.

Which begs the question, why don't the legions practice this? Why don't they still use such specialized squads?

pm713 wrote:
Why be reluctant to use Destroyers?

Because they slowly kill the user, and in a post-Heresy galaxy, this is exactly the kind of torture that can make marines fall to chaos.

jareddm wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Why be reluctant to use Destroyers?

Because they slowly kill the user, and in a post-Heresy galaxy, this is exactly the kind of torture that can make marines fall to chaos.

It was also shortly after Monarchia, so Guilliman wanted to be seen as empire creator, not destroyer.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:

jareddm wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Why be reluctant to use Destroyers?

Because they slowly kill the user, and in a post-Heresy galaxy, this is exactly the kind of torture that can make marines fall to chaos.

It was also shortly after Monarchia, so Guilliman wanted to be seen as empire creator, not destroyer.

Ah, thought you meant in M42. Though while he was reluctant, he didn't deny their use outright the way Vulkan did.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
HH Units were mostly monoweapon squads that did one job well. Whereas the old 40K tactical marines all had bolters and swapped one or two weapons out for special ones. Essentially we are seeing Guiliman bringing HH combat to 40k.

Which begs the question, why don't the legions practice this? Why don't they still use such specialized squads?

Real answer: Because GW didn't think that far ahead about how HH units fought.

In Lore Answer: Specialized units follow the HH pattern; Plague Marines, Rubric Marines, Noise Marines, Beserkers, etc... But the Tactical Squad equivalents stole Codex Astartes' tactics to better counter 40k marines.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
HH Units were mostly monoweapon squads that did one job well. Whereas the old 40K tactical marines all had bolters and swapped one or two weapons out for special ones. Essentially we are seeing Guiliman bringing HH combat to 40k.

Which begs the question, why don't the legions practice this? Why don't they still use such specialized squads?

Real answer: Because GW didn't think that far ahead about how HH units fought.

In Lore Answer: Specialized units follow the HH pattern; Plague Marines, Rubric Marines, Noise Marines, Beserkers, etc... But the Tactical Squad equivalents stole Codex Astartes' tactics to better counter 40k marines.

That makes sense, at least for gw.

But I still want my Terror Squads!

From a design perspective, having identically armed units solves the problem of people min-maxing tactical/devastator/assault squads.