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Lets say im playing astra militarum and i stick a leman russ in a ruins (with the first floor blocking line of sight) with the turret down so that it can't be targeted by my opponent's turn 1 shooting.

On my turn i leave it in the same spot but i angle the gun ina way that lets me draw LoS to my opponent. I shoot and then i angle the gun back down to keep it hidden.

Isn't there a rule somewhere that would prevent that?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Isn't there a rule somewhere that would prevent that?

The question is, is there a rule that allows you to change the configuration of your model mid-game?

The rules tell you what you CAN do. There is no rule allowing you to do so, so you cannot.

While there are no specific example for LR, we can draw a reasonable deduction from such ruling in the FAQ for drop pods that any model with moving parts must maintain its physical configuration it is deployed with (cant move drop pod doors up and down during the game)

Not sure, but it would definitely get a no no no from me.

Imagine if someone magnetised their infantry models so that they could crouch. Would it be fine on their turn for the person to pose their models so to maximise LoS, and then at then end of their turn pose them differently to take advantage of cover?

This has been debated numerous times before, but here's my take:

The game gives you permission to move models at specific points in the game.

Moving part of a model is a subset of moving the model (there are people who disagree with this, so use your own judgement or we'll have another 10 page shouting match on our hands that goes nowhere).

If you agree with the previous statement, then you may move parts of a model at times the game gives you permission to move the provided, provided no part moves a distance relative to the battlefield more than the allowed distance of movement.

This does mean you can re angle a turret in the movement phase to get a better shot, but you won't normally be able to move it again after shooting until your next turn. Unless you charge, or have some sort of stratagem or ability that allows movement.

 Stux wrote:
This has been debated numerous times before, but here's my take:

The game gives you permission to move models at specific points in the game.

Moving part of a model is a subset of moving the model (there are people who disagree with this, so use your own judgement or we'll have another 10 page shouting match on our hands that goes nowhere).

If you agree with the previous statement, then you may move parts of a model at times the game gives you permission to move the provided, provided no part moves a distance relative to the battlefield more than the allowed distance of movement.

This does mean you can re angle a turret in the movement phase to get a better shot, but you won't normally be able to move it again after shooting until your next turn. Unless you charge, or have some sort of stratagem or ability that allows movement.

Basically this. You can move the parts in the movement phase, after that you're not able to move them.

Its not the rules, as they do not specifically mention moving parts at all, so I suppose technically you should be limited to whatever alignment you started the game with. But most rational players I suspect would allow you to rotate the turret as a part of movement.

so basically no, its not allwoed unless you do a movement, in which case, moving the turret only would still give the -1 to hit for heavy weapons.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
so basically no, its not allwoed unless you do a movement, in which case, moving the turret only would still give the -1 to hit for heavy weapons.

In my opinion, yes.

You don't have permission to move a subset of the model, you have permission to move the model in its entirety.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
so basically no, its not allwoed unless you do a movement, in which case, moving the turret only would still give the -1 to hit for heavy weapons.

And would have to be kept in the same position until the next movement phase, letting opponents draw LoS to you during their turn. I'd agree with Stux's belief that it would count as movement, but would definitely be less than half movement for anything that might require that.

This is, to reiterate Stux's point, if you allow the movement of the turret in the first place, which BCB clearly doesn't believe, but wants to ignore Stux's point "(there are people who disagree with this, so use your own judgement or we'll have another 10 page shouting match on our hands that goes nowhere)" So, either the turret can or can not be moved in the movement phase, depending on your belief, but definitely not outside movement phase.

The rules are 8 bloody pages. Where exactly do you think this is buried OP?

 Grimtuff wrote:
The rules are 8 bloody pages. Where exactly do you think this is buried OP?

In the hundreds of pages of FAQs?

 Stux wrote:
This has been debated numerous times before, but here's my take:

The game gives you permission to move models at specific points in the game.

this is true, but in context they are talking about movement in inches from the model's previous location, and not moving specific parts of said model.

Moving part of a model is a subset of moving the model.

In context, the movement rules talk about moving a model a certain distance from where it was before, not about moving parts of a model.

So you can not move any parts of the model, as the rules simply do not allow for it. Unless you have a citation to the contrary.

Id be okay with it.

However i would proceed to move parts of your models so I could see them on my turn as there is also no rule at that time saying I cannot.

Then I would suggest we play with rules that are permissive, as in what you have permission to do you can do- and if there is no explicit permission to do something- you cannot do it.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Stux wrote:
This has been debated numerous times before, but here's my take:

The game gives you permission to move models at specific points in the game.

this is true, but in context they are talking about movement in inches from the model's previous location, and not moving specific parts of said model.

Moving part of a model is a subset of moving the model.

In context, the movement rules talk about moving a model a certain distance from where it was before, not about moving parts of a model.

So you can not move any parts of the model, as the rules simply do not allow for it. Unless you have a citation to the contrary.

If that were true, then rotating a model would not be movement. But no, because if part of a model has moved a distance in inches from it's starting location then that fact is true of the model as a whole.

Both you and BCB are using an oddly restrictive definition, that I see no reason to subscribe to.

No citation is needed, my reading is supported by what words mean.

Or maybe everyone could just approach games reasonably and not try and pull shenanigans? Sheesh. I cringe every time this thread comes up...

 Stux wrote:

Spoiler:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Stux wrote:
This has been debated numerous times before, but here's my take:

The game gives you permission to move models at specific points in the game.

this is true, but in context they are talking about movement in inches from the model's previous location, and not moving specific parts of said model.

Moving part of a model is a subset of moving the model.

In context, the movement rules talk about moving a model a certain distance from where it was before, not about moving parts of a model.

So you can not move any parts of the model, as the rules simply do not allow for it. Unless you have a citation to the contrary.

If that were true, then rotating a model would not be movement. But no, because if part of a model has moved a distance in inches from it's starting location then that fact is true of the model as a whole.

False, as rotating the model moves it from its spot on the board. Rotation is moving the whole model, not just a part of it.

Both you and BCB are using an oddly restrictive definition, that I see no reason to subscribe to.

So you are going to ignore the context of the rules, and not willing to provide a citation to back up your statements? Then that proves what you are stating is false.

No citation is needed, my reading is supported by what words mean.

False, you need a citation as the movement rules do not, in context, talk about moving a gun or hatch, they talk about movement (displacement of the model as a whole) without any allowance for individual parts being moved.

Unless you have a citation to the contrary.

I would consider this a spirit of the game issue, in any case.

I absolutely change the position of my turrets and sponsons to point at their targets. It makes me smile, so I do it.

That said, I wouldn’t pull the turret up / turret down thing. The game has, to the best of my knowledge, removed jump-shoot-jump. Because it isn’t fun. It’s cheap. If I can shoot you, you should be able to shoot me back.

I am not sure if drop pods still have an “immobile” rule, or if they just have 0 movement, but in either case, that could be the justification for not altering the position of the doors... on top of being a dick move.

My strong suggestion would be to follow the spirit of the game in this case. If it seems like a dick move, it probably is.

 greatbigtree wrote:
I am not sure if drop pods still have an “immobile” rule, or if they just have 0 movement...

They have both a 0" move and the Immobile rule.

My strong suggestion would be to follow the spirit of the game in this case. If it seems like a dick move, it probably is.

This, and it is against the actual rules as well.

Glad we sorted that out. Moving on.