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Hi all i have this question about this list.

cant you only have one master of the forge per arry ? feiros is a master of the forger for Iron hands right?

Jay Seebarun 1st Overall Echoes of War 4 2020 – Iron Hands

Battalion Detachment +5CP
Chapter Selection: Iron Hands
HQ: Captain [6 PL, 108pts]: Jump Pack [1 PL, 19pts], Power axe [5pts], Storm shield [10pts]
HQ: Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 70pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant [4 PL, 70pts]: Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle [5pts]
Troop: Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator [88pts], Infiltrator Sergeant [22pts]
Troop: Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: Stalker Bolt Rifle, 4x Intercessor [68pts], Intercessor Sergeant
[17pts]: Power fist [9pts]
Troop: Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 94pts]: Stalker Bolt Rifle, 4x Intercessor [68pts], Intercessor Sergeant
[17pts]: Power fist [9pts]
Heavy: Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]
Eliminator Sergeant [24pts]: Bolt sniper rifle [3pts], Camo cloak [3pts], 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper
[48pts]: 2x Bolt sniper rifle [6pts], 2x Camo cloak [6pts]
Heavy: Eliminator Squad [4 PL, 72pts]
Eliminator Sergeant [24pts]: Bolt sniper rifle [3pts], Camo cloak [3pts] 2x Eliminator with Bolt Sniper
[48pts]: 2x Bolt sniper rifle [6pts], 2x Camo cloak [6pts]
Battalion Detachment +5CP
Chapter Selection: Iron Hands
HQ: Chaplain Venerable Dreadnought [11 PL, 167pts]: 2. Catechism of Fire, Litany of Hate, Twin
lascannon [40pts]
. Melee weapon [22pts]: Dreadnought combat weapon [20pts], Storm bolter [2pts]
HQ: Techmarine [5 PL, 61pts, -1CP]: Boltgun, Warlord Master of the Machine, Power axe [5pts],
Strategem: Master of the Forge [-1CP], The Ironstone,
. Servo-harness [1 PL, 11pts]: Flamer [6pts], Plasma cutter [5pts]
Troop: Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 110pts]: 4x Infilltrator [88pts], Infiltrator Sergeant [22pts]
Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Stalker Bolt Rifle, 4x Intercessor [68pts] Intercessor Sergeant [17pts]:
Chainsword
Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Stalker Bolt Rifle, 4x Intercessor [68pts] Intercessor Sergeant [17pts]:
Chainsword
Elite: Primaris Apothecary [3 PL, 60pts]
Elite: Relic Scorpious Whirlwind [ 12 PL, 215pts] Scorpious Mulit Missile launcher [40pts]
Spearhead Detachment +1CP
Chapter Selection: Iron Hands
HQ: Ironfather Fierros [6PL, 110pts]

You can only use the stratagem Master of the Forge once per game, but you dont the Stratagem to get Feiros. Looks legit to me.

so ypu can actually have 2 master of the forges per army? if you are iron hands?

SIKAMIKA wrote:
Hi all i have this question about this list.

cant you only have one master of the forge per arry ? feiros is a master of the forger for Iron hands right?

Correct, "You can only use this Stratagem once per battle and your army cannot include two MASTERS OF THE FORGE from the same Chapter." Since he picked Iron Hands for both Detachments, if he includes Ironfather Fierros he can't use the Master of the Forge stratagem on a generic Techmarine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stux wrote:
You can only use the stratagem Master of the Forge once per game, but you dont the Stratagem to get Feiros. Looks legit to me.

You can't use Master of the Forge if you have Feirros. "You can only use this Stratagem once per battle and your army cannot include two MASTERS OF THE FORGE from the same Chapter."

Same reason why you can't use Master of Sanctity on a Black Templars Chaplain if you have Chaplain Grimaldus in your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SIKAMIKA wrote:
so ypu can actually have 2 master of the forges per army? if you are iron hands?

No, you cannot.

then why his list accepted in the tournament?

SIKAMIKA wrote:
then why his list accepted in the tournament?

Because Tournament Organisers are human and fallible, and people rely too heavily on Battlescribe.

Ah my bad, missed the line calling out Feiros specifically.

While not the case in this list, note that it would be legal to take Feiros in an Iron Hands detachment and a Master of the Forge in a separate Iron Hands successor detachment.

 Stux wrote:
Ah my bad, missed the line calling out Feiros specifically.

While not the case in this list, note that it would be legal to take Feiros in an Iron Hands detachment and a Master of the Forge in a separate Iron Hands successor detachment.

interesting! the benefits will work for all in the army yes?

SIKAMIKA wrote:

 Stux wrote:
Ah my bad, missed the line calling out Feiros specifically.

While not the case in this list, note that it would be legal to take Feiros in an Iron Hands detachment and a Master of the Forge in a separate Iron Hands successor detachment.

interesting! the benefits will work for all in the army yes?

Nope. The Strat says "Army" not "detachment".
Also, the list isn't valid as posted. Spearhead requires 3 Heavy support. It only show the HQ choice. He only has 2 HS listed in the OP.

 helgrenze wrote:

Nope. The Strat says "Army" not "detachment".
Also, the list isn't valid as posted. Spearhead requires 3 Heavy support. It only show the HQ choice. He only has 2 HS listed in the OP.

MASTER OF THE FORGE

Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select one TECHMARINE model from your army that is not a named character or a TECHMARINE GUNNER. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the MASTER OF THE FORGE keyword and the following ability: ‘Master of the Forge: When this model repairs a model using its Blessing of the Omnissiah ability, that model regains up to 3 lost wounds instead of up to D3’. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle and your army cannot include two MASTERS OF THE FORGE from the same Chapter.

Where does it say one per army ??

Yeah it's not one per army, it's one per chapter. If you really wanted to trade Superdoctrines for multiple MASTER OF THE FORGE you totally can by bringing multiple chapters.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah it's not one per army, it's one per chapter. If you really wanted to trade Superdoctrines for multiple MASTER OF THE FORGE you totally can by bringing multiple chapters.

Except the player in the OP didn't do that. All of his detachments are listed as "Iron Hands"

I also found the missing info on the Spearhead Det:

Heavy: Relic Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 315pts]: Storm Cannon Array [50pts], Storm Cannon Arrary [50pts] 2x Hunter killer missiles [12pts] Heavy:
Whirlwind [4 PL, 85pts]: Whirlwind Vengeance Launcher [20pts] Heavy:
Whirlwind [4 PL, 85pts]: Whirlwind Vengeance Launcher [20pts]

Full list here.

 helgrenze wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah it's not one per army, it's one per chapter. If you really wanted to trade Superdoctrines for multiple MASTER OF THE FORGE you totally can by bringing multiple chapters.

Except the player in the OP didn't do that. All of his detachments are listed as "Iron Hands"

Which is irrelevant, as we had moved on to discussing ways it could be legal.

Two part answer:

1. The player didn't realize Iron Father Feirros has the Master of the Forge keyword.
2. Battlescribe doesn't have a validity check for Iron Father Feirros and the Master of the Forge stratagem.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

SIKAMIKA wrote:
then why his list accepted in the tournament?

Because Tournament Organisers are human and fallible, and people rely too heavily on Battlescribe.

That's exactly the reason why I don't use BattleScribe...

I use WordPad.

Somehow I don't think WordPad would have helped here. Either you remember/notice Iron Father Feiros is a Master of the Forge or you don't.

Slayer6 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

SIKAMIKA wrote:
then why his list accepted in the tournament?

Because Tournament Organisers are human and fallible, and people rely too heavily on Battlescribe.

That's exactly the reason why I don't use BattleScribe...

I use WordPad.

Another reason to have the source material.

Slayer6 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

SIKAMIKA wrote:
then why his list accepted in the tournament?

Because Tournament Organisers are human and fallible, and people rely too heavily on Battlescribe.

That's exactly the reason why I don't use BattleScribe...

I use WordPad.

Battlescribe isnt perfect, but it's better than a lot of people at making lists.

For pickup games, I would rather the average opponent use Battlescribe, as I have more confidence in it being pretty accurate most of the time.

The tournament standard needs to be higher though. Sure, use Battlescribe as a start point, but for a tournament you really need to be double checking everything yourself.

Battlescribe is usually fine if used as a pts calculator or to check if your detachment is legal. Beyond that it is a pretty poor rule source. I don't trust battlescribe anymore on the legality of strats or relics. I would always ask to see my opponent's codex or supplement rather than trusting battlescribe.

GW is a pretty poor rule source as well. They screw up every time they release new rules.

We seem to have answered the actual question. Moving on.