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2020/03/31 21:02:12
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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Which would be better? I want a specialized force that can be tournament viable but still fun to play.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/03/31 21:02:23
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2020/03/31 22:53:41
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Regular Dakkanaut
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The only ones that are competitive are blood angels. I would not pick an army based just on that, as they are aesthetically very different and not interchangable at all. Rules can always change, and 9th edition is most likely comming this year, so beware.
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2020/03/31 23:11:31
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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yeah I'd go for the one that you like the aestetics of the most.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2020/03/31 23:15:34
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
France
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I play Dark Angel, but if I wanted to start from scratch I'd play a random SM chapter with my own paint scheme, after that you can play the rules you want, doesn't matter.
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2020/03/31 23:19:44
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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As a first army? I'd echo the others. Look into their respective story and between that and the miniatures aesthetics you'll have your answer.
I would also add after a lifetime of starting new armies that I'd recommend sticking to 1-2 max. The constant merry-go-round of rules updates is far easier navigated with an expansive collection of 1 or 2 armies than a sprawling number of small forces.
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BlaxicanX wrote:A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
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2020/03/31 23:28:44
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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generally my thoughts are:
Dark Angels: have a lot of terminator armor and bikes, and the death wing and raven wing haveing seperate schemes can break up the monotomy of painting all one colour.
Blood angels: are quick and easy to do a basic basic scheme on due to being all red. but also have a lot of oppertunity for styling up. ifg you like painting gold filigree on your models etc, blood angels might be fun. proably the most "beautiful" looking for the 3
Space Wolves: almost the polar oppisite of blood angels, they have a lot of pelts, furs and shamanistic totems. if you like the ideas of "primitive" space marines. they're your go too
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2020/04/01 00:32:03
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Space Wolves are the only one that can't be represented by the Vanilla codex and just not be simply better. Dark and Blood Angels simply lack enough distinction for the for lost options to be worth it whatsoever. That isn't to say that Saga helped much of course.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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2020/04/01 02:16:07
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Fixture of Dakka
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Don't buy an army just for tournament viability. There's a very good chance of 9th coming and the meta shifting and if they don't go out of fashion then they certainly will later.
As others have said go for the army you like the most. But I will add that if you pick Space Wolves the community really likes mary sue and wolfy mcwolf jokes and they get very very tiring. A third of the reason I gave up on wolves was the jokes got tired. The same is true to a lesser extent with DA and traitor jokes.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2020/04/01 03:21:28
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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Regardless of the same old poster, saying the same old BS, each one of the armies are distinctive and have their strengths/weaknesses. You really have to figure out what about each one attracts you the most.
All of them can be built as generic marines to some degree, but that's generally not why people collect them, they opt for the specialist units.
Dark Angels this is going to be primarily Ravenwing with maybe some Deathwing Knights for support. So you're looking at bikes, speeders and maybe air support, plus terminators.
Blood Angels are going to rely on jump troops, either sanguinary Guard or Death Company with good support from characters.
Space Wolves will lean more on Wulfen or Thunderwolf cavalry, again with good support from characters.
You have to love your army....so figure which appeals to you most.
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2020/04/01 06:53:36
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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I'll echo to just go with the ones you like most.
Rules come and go, especially in the tournament meta. Plastic will stay.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2020/04/01 07:23:35
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
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In addition to what's been said, it may be worth considering your preferred play style. For example, Blood Angels and Space Wolves are primarily close combat armies, and this is unlikely to change if/when 9th pops up. If you prefer to sit back and shoot, they may not be a good fit for you.
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VAIROSEAN LIVES! |
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2020/04/01 07:41:27
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I'd ask two questions in return:
1. How fast can you paint?
2. How many other armies do you own?
The problem with trying to build a "tournament army" in 40k is that the meta changes so fast you'll likely be disappointed if you can't actually produce an army in a matter of weeks. Sometimes you can get armies that are good meta armies for longer than that but it's certainly true that nothing stays top of the pile for long. Even armies like Eldar that have been consistently good tend to completely change in composition as the meta changes.
If this is your first army, rather than an additional tournament force, my advice would be not to worry about tournament viability. This is because of the shifting meta but also because, depending on your local players, tournament armies in non-tournament metas are not a great experience for anyone involved. Both BA and DA are probably capable of building decent tournament lists (BA definitely are) but it's still too early to say if SW can after their recent update. If you collect an army you like you'll end up with a solid core force that can be built as a competitive army through minor changes.
Building an army specifically to be tournament viable is not a great approach to take with 40k unless you're prepared to have that same army be non-competitive within anything from 2-12 months.
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2020/04/01 07:44:36
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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harlokin wrote:In addition to what's been said, it may be worth considering your preferred play style. For example, Blood Angels and Space Wolves are primarily close combat armies, and this is unlikely to change if/when 9th pops up. If you prefer to sit back and shoot, they may not be a good fit for you.
Good advice.
Space Wolves are about close combat fighting, with wolves and wolf riders, a drop ship, terminators, wulfen and a smattering of Valhalla-inspired characters.
Blood Angels are about going fast and hitting hard. Their signature units are of jump pack units and dreadnoughts.
Dark Angels are about a combined arms of their three wings and plasma. Ravenwing is landspeeders and bikes, Deathwing is terminators and the "green wing" supports both with stationary long-range shooting.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2020/04/01 08:31:21
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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I'd argue blood angels are close combat focused. their special rules tends to enchourage it. so really it's two differant flavors of choppy where they and the wolves are concerned. but yeah blood angels tend to be more a "hit em fast" whereas space wolves teeeend to be more about "feet on the ground" and don't utilize jump packs etc nearly as much. prefering things like cavalry.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2020/04/01 08:36:44
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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I agree, what I meant to say that space wolves are more about actually getting stuck in, while blood angels want to hit something just once, but hit it hard enough so it doesn't get back up.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2020/04/01 08:48:09
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Jidmah wrote:I agree, what I meant to say that space wolves are more about actually getting stuck in, while blood angels want to hit something just once, but hit it hard enough so it doesn't get back up.
seems about right, the space wolves also I thinkn are supposed to be a bit of a counter charge army, and a "melee of oppertunity" army. whereas blood angels close combat is mostly about special units, and outside of those are pretty much just marines, space wolves basic infantry unit (the grey Hunter) is as dangerous as most marine armies basic assault unit.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2020/04/01 09:24:35
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
Hanoi, Vietnam.
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I went with Dark Angels, because when I was a kid, I loved their paint scheme. Now I'm all grown up, if I could start over (I mean I could, but that's not the point) I'd go with Blood Angels on the basis of them having the coolest lore, the sexiest primarch, and generally, not being dicks like many of the other chapters.
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2020/04/01 09:34:36
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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IMO, if you're primarily getting those models for tournament play, the best thing you can do is paint them in a non-GW colour scheme.
Just browse some galleries (incl. on Dakka) or even google image search and look for a paint scheme that you find interesting. Then use that. Then you're basic core of Tac Marines/Intercessors, Devastators/Hellblasters, Rhinos/Impulsors will be able to serve you as Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, for years to come, whether you wanna "chase the meta" or just wanna have some variety in how you play them.
Many chapter-specific units such as Sanguinary Guard or Ravenwing Bikes have a different colour scheme than their "main chapter" anyhow, so you could either just paint, say, the Sanguinary Guard in standard gold and add it to your "purple-counts-as-Blood-Angels-this-game"-Marines or just paint them to match your flexi-Marines-army. Just tie it in nicely with shared bases and some spot colours, and you should be fine.
Of course, this is the "tournament perspective".
If you're mainly into it because you're drawn to ... say .... the Space Wolves pictures put out by GW and the Space Wolves lore and the all things Space Wolves, go paint a Space Wolves army for the love of the hobby (with tournament flexibility, variety and viability being a less priority in that case).
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2020/04/01 12:22:27
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Fixture of Dakka
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You can make a perfectly shooty SW force if you want.
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2020/04/01 12:32:17
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Dakka Veteran
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These 3 SM armies are all defined by their few special units and characters, so my suggestion is to paint the way you like the core of your army (which for SMs is literally interchangeable between all codex compliant and non-compliant SM armies) and buy the special units when time calls for you to play SW/BA/DA.
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2020/04/01 14:48:56
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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I mispoke. I would like an army that I could use it in a tournament but that won't be my main goal. I just want an army that is fun.
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2020/04/01 14:53:14
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Define "fun"?
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2020/04/01 17:41:13
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Guardsman with Flashlight
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An army that has a distinct playstyle
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2020/04/01 19:02:30
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Well that depends what you find fun, tbh.
Choose the models you like best.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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2020/04/01 22:00:23
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
Canada
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Dark Angels are not the answer, they are the question. And the answer is yes.
As others have said, tournament performance is a shifting metric, especially these days. All three listed factions can generate lists that can give a good account of themselves. All three have cool, established themes.
Dark Angels have good internal variety with three distinct elements and good named characters. A Ravenwing and Deathwing combo is a compact force that looks cool, is fairly easy to collect and can hit hard. It needs some support to fill it out for CPs and board control. Terminators are not in a great place, but the Deathwing got some Stratagems that make them a little more viable. Deathwing Knights delivered by a Ravenwing Bike squad can mess up pretty much any target in melee.
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All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand |
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2020/04/05 22:16:22
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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As a (somewhat) long-time BA player with little experience with the other two...
I will have to go with Space Wolves here. Disclaimer: I haven't played much in 8th and haven't seen SW played properly, so take this with a pinch of salt.
But the reason why I would recommend considering against BA:
From that choice onwards you kind of lock yourself into playing agressive Jump Pack melee army from here until the end of times. You can certainly play a gunline with them (now more than ever), but you would constantly ask yourself "why am I playing Blood Angels if my army would be objectively better as a Vanilla Marine army".
And if you enjoy playing fast melee army, sure, go for it.
All I'm saying is this: if you want a flexible army? BA aren't your pick.
If you want to be able to change your playstyle later on? BA aren't really your pick.
If you want to olay shooty instead of stabby? Well, you know what I'm about to say.
So I recommend wolves or the other angels.
Out of those two, I've always felt that Wolves were the more flexible one with more punch and greater mix of cool special characters.
Can't say about the competitive scene between the two.
So, as a fierce fan of the Red Angels of Rage, I highly recommend you think twice or thrice before commiting to one playstyle for all of eternity.
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2020/04/06 15:30:18
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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BA were pretty flexible in 5th. Just sayin,.
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2020/04/06 15:52:55
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Fair enough.
I just find that if you're playing a more shooting-oriented army, choosing BA as your chapter has some wasted potential and you might be better off with almost any other chapter.
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4000p
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2020/04/06 15:56:45
Subject: Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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That's true, but I find shooting elements to be critical in TAC BA lists. Hordes shut down the current tourney winners pretty hard.
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2020/04/06 19:30:11
Subject: Re:Dark angels, blood angels, or space wolves
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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I think what's being said is if you want a shooty army you're going to look at the BA chapter bonus and feel "... I'd gain a lot and lose nothing by running this gunline as Imperial Fists"
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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