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the eldar being a proud race, how would they feel about their basic guardian troop compared to a "basic" space marine intercessor, I can imagine their pride being hurt and having feelings of "inadequacy" showing up to the fight vs a primal human being able to take on a whole squad of "guardians" haha feel free to be mean to me in comments =(

How many can a gorilla best in a fist fight......does that make gorillas superior, and Aeldari jealous?

The Mon'Keigh are primitive vermin, the fact they are bigger now just means that they make more interesting trophies.

Not sure it wound change much. Eldar were generally physically inferior to Space Marines to begin with in most ways, and that really hasn't changed with the Primaris, and we've got plenty of fluff of Space Marines killing insane numbers of Eldar with nary a scratch from looooooooooooong before the Primaris were ever even conceived.

Fluff doesn't always equal the tabletop. Primaris are anything but basic - Space Marines were already the elite amongst Imperial forces. It'd be an unfair comparison, taking your average Eldar Guardian who is only fighting because they have to, and comparing against something literally engineered and indoctrinated for war.
A fairer comparison might be Marines compared to Aspect Warriors, Guardians have a much closer fit to Imperial Guardsmen.

Most Eldar would I suspect see them as harlokin describes - still primitive vermin, and still highly dangerous, just ever-so-slightly MORE dangerous now. The Drukhari would of course be the ones looking at them as potential trophies, and I imagine the Haemonculi in particular would want to get their hands on a few specimens for curiosity's sake.

The Harlequins probably don't really care at all.

From the description of Primaris marines in the arena in the 8th ed dark eldar codex: The dark eldar view them the way a big game hunter views a wildebeest.

Do you feel inferior to a wildebeest? No, it's a big, stupid, lumpy, smelly, dumb beast. Can a wildebeest kill you super duper dead in single combat?

Yep, frequently. Good for the wildebeests too.

An Ork Nob could stomp the average Eldar, an Ogre even more so, etc. Eldar stand head and shoulders above the Imperium regarding their mastery of their own brand of magic/tech. I don't think that the Imperium unveiling a new, slightly more advanced brand of genetic engineering changes much. Dark Eldar haemonculi, on the other hand, are likely quite interesting in nabbing some primaris to experiment on.

int he words of Neo ".. upgrades.."

ok, here's the thing to keep in mind

This isn't a typical bog standard human trooper




THIS is

BrianDavion wrote:
ok, here's the thing to keep in mind

This isn't a typical bog standard human trooper




THIS is

This.

Eldar associate humanity by its teeming masses as pretty much vermin, with marines being largely far and in-between, this makes space marines (primaris or not) as an exception and not the rule of the race. Not to mention that given how behind humans are technologically and culturally speaking, Eldar don't care if you're bigger or stronger, they still see them as inferior. Otherwise, Eldar should be jealous of Orks and Tyranids as well since they're far bigger and stronger than the average Eldar as well, which they're obviously not.

99% of all eldar have never seen a space marine in the flesh. So they probably wouldn't care all that much.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
99% of all eldar have never seen a space marine in the flesh. So they probably wouldn't care all that much.

I get your point here, but I doubt this would actually be accurate, for three reasons:

1 - every Eldar is trained as a Guardian, and every Craftworld ends up facing war, even if they're not an Aspect Warrior - so that increases the odds.
2 - the Eldars' long life span means that short of dying in battle (and even then - Wraith constructs!), they've got plenty more time than humans have to witness one.
3 - Drukhari will see them a bit more often than Craftworld Eldar on account of the realspace raids and arena fights.

I get that it'd be a low number, but 1% sounds a bit exaggerated.

Seeing Eldar predate humanity by a million odd years i think they should be more concerned with how they are at a less than or equal tech level than the backwards imperium. I mean if you had a million years to improve your technology...that stuff would be crazy powerful. Yet all the Eldar have is old ones technology and agile bodies. So what do they think of Primaris...probably not much.

Ever play Stellaris? Eldar would be a Fallen Empire...yeah you just don't go there.

The eldars are arrogant by nature anyway so they'd never get jealous I think, plus for all the genetic engineering mankind pulls off they still rely mostly on "backward" technology, do not comprehend the web, can only partially master their psychic abilities, and the guard is still more representative of what a human is actually, can't seem to actually fight back the awakening necrons and many other reproaches.
So probably much unchanged.

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
Seeing Eldar predate humanity by a million odd years i think they should be more concerned with how they are at a less than or equal tech level than the backwards imperium. I mean if you had a million years to improve your technology...that stuff would be crazy powerful. Yet all the Eldar have is old ones technology and agile bodies. So what do they think of Primaris...probably not much.

Ever play Stellaris? Eldar would be a Fallen Empire...yeah you just don't go there.

Pre-fall, the Eldar could more or less rival the Necrons in technology. The thing is, the Eldar's tech was all psychic-based and after Slaanesh became a thing, using psychic powers carelessly became a death sentence, so most of their stuff ended up unusable instantly. That's why they're not much better than the filthy humans.

Even bigger monkeys to manipulate into unknowingly fighting on our behalf ? Splendid news

I doubt they’d even particularly notice, outside of military strategists who’d still not have that much difference to take into account.

 Super Ready wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
99% of all eldar have never seen a space marine in the flesh. So they probably wouldn't care all that much.

I get your point here, but I doubt this would actually be accurate, for three reasons:

1 - every Eldar is trained as a Guardian, and every Craftworld ends up facing war, even if they're not an Aspect Warrior - so that increases the odds.
2 - the Eldars' long life span means that short of dying in battle (and even then - Wraith constructs!), they've got plenty more time than humans have to witness one.
3 - Drukhari will see them a bit more often than Craftworld Eldar on account of the realspace raids and arena fights.

I get that it'd be a low number, but 1% sounds a bit exaggerated.

I doubt every eldar has fought wars, let alone wars vs humanity. and on top of that marines are very rare. Eldar's style of warfare is likely to enchourage them to GTFO BEFORE the Marines show up

People often forget that current Eldars are just a pale of the pre-fall ones.

Eldar still revel in their past so they consider humans inferior despite not being able to fight at the same level they did when they ruled the galaxy (where your average Eldar was a mixture of nearly a Phoenix Lord martial might plus Farseer levels of psy power.)

P.S: also i'm on the opinion Eldar guardians aren't as weak as people imagine.
The Eldar can spent 5 years to learn/maximize his guardian combat knowledge and then can still retain such knowledge as if they mastered it a week ago and retain his physical level way past the 500-700 years range as example making them something similar to a Scion in combat capacity.

BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt every eldar has fought wars, let alone wars vs humanity. and on top of that marines are very rare. Eldar's style of warfare is likely to enchourage them to GTFO BEFORE the Marines show up

I agree with most of this except for the first part. It's actually canon that most Eldar are forced to fight sooner or later:

"It is a painful irony that, in the Aeldari species' endless quest for survival, the very civilians the warhosts fight to protect are all too often forced to take up arms."
"On some craftworlds, Ulthwé foremost amongst them, the Guardians are the most common of all Aeldari warriors. As the number of dedicated, professional Aeldari troops -- the Aspect Warriors -- in a craftworld are simply too few to meet all threats, those Aeldari dedicated to a civilian Asuryani Path serve as Guardians in battle, forming the bulk of the Craftworlder Aeldari armies."

I lifted those from wiki but I'm aware that they come from an Eldar Codex, even if not the most recent one. The gist of it being that there just aren't enough Aspect Warriors to go around - kind of how there just aren't enough Space Marines to go around, in spite of what you see on the tabletop.

I can see the argument for Marines being rare enough that a sizeable number of Eldar might never see one? I just disagree that it's as high as 99% of them.

 Super Ready wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
99% of all eldar have never seen a space marine in the flesh. So they probably wouldn't care all that much.

I get your point here, but I doubt this would actually be accurate, for three reasons:

1 - every Eldar is trained as a Guardian, and every Craftworld ends up facing war, even if they're not an Aspect Warrior - so that increases the odds.
2 - the Eldars' long life span means that short of dying in battle (and even then - Wraith constructs!), they've got plenty more time than humans have to witness one.
3 - Drukhari will see them a bit more often than Craftworld Eldar on account of the realspace raids and arena fights.

I get that it'd be a low number, but 1% sounds a bit exaggerated.

Hrm, if we start looking at the setting as a whole, I'd say 1% would be a dramatic over-estimation if anything. In a galaxy of a hundred billion+ stars, with untold trillions of humans, and literally thousands of entire Imperial Guard regiments per individual Space Marine (given GW's numbers of there being billlions of Guard regiments), the odds of any particular Eldar, even very long lived ones, having encountered one of the mere million Space Marines would literally be astronomically low, literal lotto-odds low, with those living to tell such tales being even fewer.

That said, GW's idea of a million space marines having any sort of relevance on a galactic scale falls apart very quickly when looked at in that light, a million Space Marines isn't enough to adequately cover enough physical ground to properly garrison a single Earth like planet, much less wage war across an entire galaxy, but nobody ever said GW's numbers made sense

 Super Ready wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I doubt every eldar has fought wars, let alone wars vs humanity. and on top of that marines are very rare. Eldar's style of warfare is likely to enchourage them to GTFO BEFORE the Marines show up

I agree with most of this except for the first part. It's actually canon that most Eldar are forced to fight sooner or later:

"It is a painful irony that, in the Aeldari species' endless quest for survival, the very civilians the warhosts fight to protect are all too often forced to take up arms."
"On some craftworlds, Ulthwé foremost amongst them, the Guardians are the most common of all Aeldari warriors. As the number of dedicated, professional Aeldari troops -- the Aspect Warriors -- in a craftworld are simply too few to meet all threats, those Aeldari dedicated to a civilian Asuryani Path serve as Guardians in battle, forming the bulk of the Craftworlder Aeldari armies."

I lifted those from wiki but I'm aware that they come from an Eldar Codex, even if not the most recent one. The gist of it being that there just aren't enough Aspect Warriors to go around - kind of how there just aren't enough Space Marines to go around, in spite of what you see on the tabletop.

I can see the argument for Marines being rare enough that a sizeable number of Eldar might never see one? I just disagree that it's as high as 99% of them.

"All too often" doesn't mean "evbery eldar ever everywhere" just "yeah it's pretty common"

Yeah, fair, I can see that. ...I'll back off on the tangent, since it's kinda detracting from the main point, I think we're all agreed that an Eldar meeting a Marine is at least somewhere on the scale between "significantly" and "very very" rare.

Pre-fall, the Eldar could more or less rival the Necrons in technology. The thing is, the Eldar's tech was all psychic-based and after Slaanesh became a thing, using psychic powers carelessly became a death sentence, so most of their stuff ended up unusable instantly. That's why they're not much better than the filthy humans.

Headcannon - This has never been said in any official source to my knowledge. Eldar Haemonculi can still pull off the seemly impossible without the use of psychic powers but their tech is suddenly different? and they should be ahead of the Necrons aswell...they have been sleeping a million years. You would think that MIGHT make a difference but nope. The Tau caught up even faster than humans.

All their ships still work that is fact or they would all be dead, its not like the craftworld eldar seen slaanesh coming. The fall is a nice excuse players made up so far as i can tell and there has never been any evidence I have seen of Eldar tech that no longer works. In one book i read it mentions that a psychic interface on a Dark Eldar ship was no longer used. Craftworld Eldar still use ships...they just had to change them. (It was the Jain Zar book)

I doubt every eldar has fought wars, let alone wars vs humanity. and on top of that marines are very rare. Eldar's style of warfare is likely to enchourage them to GTFO BEFORE the Marines show up

You forget how long Eldar live...while not immortal compared to how we are they pretty much are. They live about a thousand years on average...that is a long time to avoid humans...seeing they pretty much control the galaxy.

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
All their ships still work that is fact or they would all be dead, its not like the craftworld eldar seen slaanesh coming. The fall is a nice excuse players made up so far as i can tell and there has never been any evidence I have seen of Eldar tech that no longer works. In one book i read it mentions that a psychic interface on a Dark Eldar ship was no longer used. Craftworld Eldar still use ships...they just had to change them. (It was the Jain Zar book)

There is one flaw in this thinking - the Craftworld Eldar were in fact the ones that did see Slaanesh coming. Not as early as the Exodites, but they foresaw some sort of massive calamity early enough to flee the rest of Eldar society - that's why they're on Craftworlds in the first place.
The rest of the Eldar would have been living on maiden worlds at the time of the Fall, and it's these worlds that bore the brunt of Slaanesh's awakening - the Eldar created these worlds via terraforming. I'm not familiar with any other faction in 40k that can effectively pull that off, unless you count Chaos daemon worlds (and I'm not counting the Imperium's process of turning a perfectly verdant world into a hive monstrosity, since if anything that makes a planet less naturally habitable). So that's at least one technology that's been lost since the Fall, as the Craftworld Eldar resort to battling anyone that's "invaded" their maiden worlds since, as opposed to creating new ones.

 Super Ready wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
99% of all eldar have never seen a space marine in the flesh. So they probably wouldn't care all that much.

I get your point here, but I doubt this would actually be accurate, for three reasons:

1 - every Eldar is trained as a Guardian, and every Craftworld ends up facing war, even if they're not an Aspect Warrior - so that increases the odds.
2 - the Eldars' long life span means that short of dying in battle (and even then - Wraith constructs!), they've got plenty more time than humans have to witness one.
3 - Drukhari will see them a bit more often than Craftworld Eldar on account of the realspace raids and arena fights.

I get that it'd be a low number, but 1% sounds a bit exaggerated.

It is exaggerated- it would be vastly less than 1% of Eldar. Somewhere in the 0.0XX% margin.

Being a warrior is nice but the galaxy is a big place and there are only 1 million space marines. Astartes are mythological even to Imperial soldiers, the vast majority of whom consider them legends and not a real actual entity. The average guardsmen will go his entire military career only fighting human cults and rebellions, while a few depending on geography will fight orks. Consider then that there are a million+ times more guardsmen then there are Eldar in the galaxy.

 Super Ready wrote:

Rebel4ever85 wrote:
All their ships still work that is fact or they would all be dead, its not like the craftworld eldar seen slaanesh coming. The fall is a nice excuse players made up so far as i can tell and there has never been any evidence I have seen of Eldar tech that no longer works. In one book i read it mentions that a psychic interface on a Dark Eldar ship was no longer used. Craftworld Eldar still use ships...they just had to change them. (It was the Jain Zar book)

There is one flaw in this thinking - the Craftworld Eldar were in fact the ones that did see Slaanesh coming. Not as early as the Exodites, but they foresaw some sort of massive calamity early enough to flee the rest of Eldar society - that's why they're on Craftworlds in the first place.
The rest of the Eldar would have been living on maiden worlds at the time of the Fall, and it's these worlds that bore the brunt of Slaanesh's awakening - the Eldar created these worlds via terraforming. I'm not familiar with any other faction in 40k that can effectively pull that off, unless you count Chaos daemon worlds (and I'm not counting the Imperium's process of turning a perfectly verdant world into a hive monstrosity, since if anything that makes a planet less naturally habitable). So that's at least one technology that's been lost since the Fall, as the Craftworld Eldar resort to battling anyone that's "invaded" their maiden worlds since, as opposed to creating new ones.

the IoM is capable of Terraforming,

I think the Eldar know that the Primaris were only created to help GW sell a new range of space marines right?

They are pretty 4th wall-breaking and all-knowing like that..

There is one flaw in this thinking - the Craftworld Eldar were in fact the ones that did see Slaanesh coming. Not as early as the Exodites, but they foresaw some sort of massive calamity early enough to flee the rest of Eldar society - that's why they're on Craftworlds in the first place.
The rest of the Eldar would have been living on maiden worlds at the time of the Fall, and it's these worlds that bore the brunt of Slaanesh's awakening - the Eldar created these worlds via terraforming. I'm not familiar with any other faction in 40k that can effectively pull that off, unless you count Chaos daemon worlds (and I'm not counting the Imperium's process of turning a perfectly verdant world into a hive monstrosity, since if anything that makes a planet less naturally habitable). So that's at least one technology that's been lost since the Fall, as the Craftworld Eldar resort to battling anyone that's "invaded" their maiden worlds since, as opposed to creating new ones.

Lets be clear so there isn't confusion. The reason I said they didn't see Slaanesh coming was because i was making the point they couldn't have known all their psychic powers would be compromised the way they were. While the Exodites and Craftworld Eldar saw the rot in the society and left to escape it, I doubt they imagined that the Eye of Terror would open and a chaos god would be born... given how many died I would suggest it took them by surprise.

Rebel4ever85 wrote:

Pre-fall, the Eldar could more or less rival the Necrons in technology. The thing is, the Eldar's tech was all psychic-based and after Slaanesh became a thing, using psychic powers carelessly became a death sentence, so most of their stuff ended up unusable instantly. That's why they're not much better than the filthy humans.

Headcannon - This has never been said in any official source to my knowledge. Eldar Haemonculi can still pull off the seemly impossible without the use of psychic powers but their tech is suddenly different? and they should be ahead of the Necrons aswell...they have been sleeping a million years. You would think that MIGHT make a difference but nope. The Tau caught up even faster than humans.

All their ships still work that is fact or they would all be dead, its not like the craftworld eldar seen slaanesh coming. The fall is a nice excuse players made up so far as i can tell and there has never been any evidence I have seen of Eldar tech that no longer works. In one book i read it mentions that a psychic interface on a Dark Eldar ship was no longer used. Craftworld Eldar still use ships...they just had to change them. (It was the Jain Zar book)

If its headcanon, it doesn't come from my head, but I can't remember where I got that from, so maybe?

What we do know is that the eldar's empire was so powerful/advanced that individual eldars didn't need to do anything with their own two hands and could spend all their time being as decadent as possible. We can get a hint of what they could do by looking at Commorragh: for example they are apparently capable of capturing and moving a whole star into the webway to use it as a power source... We know they could build ships as ridiculously massive as the craftworlds. We also know they terraformed a lot of planets into paradise worlds.

In other words, it seems the eldar could do a lot more back then than what they can do now. Considering that most eldar stuff is made of wraithbone and it takes psychic manipulation to build it, it makes sense that what limits them is how much they can tap into the warp without getting their souls snuffed. It's true that this is not the only possible explanation. It could be that without their empire, they don't have enough ressources to work with.