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So let's collect some advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage.

One can go space travel.

As I'm pretty sure a myriad disadventages will be mentioned soon enough, some small advantages:

- the Imperium seems to have figured out fusion reactors, so no real shortage of energy or fossil fuels
- if an asteroid is on a crash course, the IoM can do something about it (if they want too)
- effective prosthetics for lost limbs/eyes etc.

Advantage: medical technology is so advanced that replacing a limb or an organ is a routine operation.

Disadvantage: statistically, you're likely to be one of the trillions of unimportant serfs who don't have access to the nice things the 42nd millenium has to offer.

You would be unlikely to be able to travel off world. The earth would be strip mined and hive cities erected.

Advantage: there would zero unemployment, wether you liked your job or not
Advantage: life would be a cyberpunk adventure
Advantage: you might be able to go and love with the tau

Disadvantage: Facist government like we’ve never seen
Disadvantage: probably dead by the time your 30 unless you find your self in the upper class
Disadvantage: you will probably commit heresy without realising it
Disadvantage: don’t get over emotional or you give life to your worst nightmare
Disadvantage: don’t let anyone see you psychic powers unless you want to be sacrificed to keep the emperor alive

mrFickle wrote:
The earth would be strip mined and hive cities erected.

This was my initial thought. We're quite hefty on the water side, so I imagine the oceans would be viewed as the primary resource here. We don't have the "teeming" billions for a hive world just yet, but we've got enough land mass for a few billion more - so we could expect ships with a ridiculous amount of serfs coming in to build those hive spires, and then remain here as workers or get shipped out again as the first of many many Guard regiments.

Advantages? ...I'm struggling to see any that the average citizen would be able to take advantage of, frankly.

 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
So let's collect some advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage.

One can go space travel.

Next time you pass a homeless person in the street you say to them "Isn't it great! You can travel by airplane! You're so lucky".

The 'advantages' of living in the 40k era are not within the reach of the masses. You will be a slave. You will die young. You will be soylant green. There are no advantages.

Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:So let's collect some advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage.

One can go space travel.

Shame that most citizens never will, because of the backbreaking conditions of their serfdom.

I mean, as said above - we *technically* all have the ability to fly in aeroplanes, or even leave atmosphere. But not everyone can.


The only advantages 40k offers are either only accessible to the top 0.000001% of humanity, or are only advantages if you look at them whilst squinting hard ("you don't have to worry about what religion to follow!" "you're guaranteed some form of employment!" "there's definitely some kind of afterlife - who cares if it's good or bad!").
But on the grand scheme of things - there are no advantages to living in the Imperium enjoyable by the 99.999%.

Not very tailored answers above.

If we were discovered by the imperium and not recognised as a time displaced terra, most likely we would find our governments swiftly crushed for not capitulating on the spot and replaced by a planetary governor with tithe figures to hit. We would then have several decades of likely fairly soft transition unless the imperium had uncharacteristically little war distracting them in this sector and cleared enough red tape to bother with a more thorough restructuring.

Expect missionaries, and possibly the admech throwing a fit when they realise what our computers are like.

Pros: Planetary governor’s astropath can call for help if we get discovered by another 40k power.

Cons: Significant off-world taxes to a mysterious empire that probably doesn’t have the time or resources to integrate us any swifter. Lunatic missionaries with schizophrenic technology trying to force a new religion on everyone. Possible violent purge of computing tech depending on when the Admech notice it.

I don't think the discussion was about "what would happen if the Imperium discovered and conquered us", it was about just outright differences between current Earth and 40k Imperium of Man.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I don't think the discussion was about "what would happen if the Imperium discovered and conquered us", it was about just outright differences between current Earth and 40k Imperium of Man.

Title clearly states what advantages and disadvantages living in the imperium would have... To 21st century earth.

Every stripe of "psykik" twaddle peddler being loaded onto the black ships seems like a plus

changemod wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I don't think the discussion was about "what would happen if the Imperium discovered and conquered us", it was about just outright differences between current Earth and 40k Imperium of Man.

Title clearly states what advantages and disadvantages living in the imperium would have... To 21st century earth.

I think there's some degree of interpretation as to if that's "the Imperium takes over modern earth" or "compare modern earth to the Imperium".

Regardless, I think the general point is the same - the Imperium sucks, and the few advantages it might have are either unavailable or meaningless to the vast majority of people.

If you are rich there are huge upsides:
Longevity - you can live for hundreds of years without major degredation of your body or mind.
Power - the power of life and death over multitudes.
Exotics: void travel, alien contact, psykers, advanced and exotic drugs, food and drink

For the poor it only gets worse, much much worse.

For everyone else - its worse, lack of freedom - of belief and poltical thought. Many planets will have much lower quality of life.

Possible benefit - the God you worship is definately real.

Negative - so are the demons.

Advantages:
- I don't have to care for my retirement plan any more, because... you know.
- I don't have to care for a nursing home either... or health insurance most likely
- I don't have to set money aside for a funeral and a grave because I will be soilent green or a servitor

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Advantages:
- I don't have to care for my retirement plan any more, because... you know.
- I don't have to care for a nursing home either... or health insurance most likely
- I don't have to set money aside for a funeral and a grave because I will be soilent green or a servitor

I would not be surprised if on many Imperial worlds there was a tithe to cover the expenses of picking your body up and recycling it.

You can probably pay extra to have a priest say a few words in the resyk plant - via servo skull.

I could get devoured by aliens far faster than it ever seems to happen here

Advantage: You would likely be able to travel off-world and see space and new planets and stuff...

Disadvantage: You will likely be traveling off world to get chucked into a meatgrinder against some face-melting aliens.

I mean, Imperium world's are reaaaaaaally different. So if we're comparing, the question is to what? A Knight world is fairly feudal so it's a step back in all directions. A Hive world has problems too. We've seen before that there are luxuries and entertainment for the masses on some world's though (even movies I think).

So on some world's, it might actually be an upgrade. On others, definitely a downgrade.

If just comparing Terra to Terra, probably a downgrade.

Without getting into space travel stuff, 21st century earth has a surprisingly large number of capabilities that forces of all kinds in the 40k universe appear to lack or only have in limited availability or more primitive examples.

Radar guided counterbattery artillery fire accurate to within a couple of meters, vehicles able to move at highway speeds and engage targets also moving at highway speeds a couple kilometers distant with extremely high levels of accuracy, Beyond Visual Range missile systems that can engage targets potentially hundreds of miles away, entire armies equipped with enhanced optics on even basic infantry weapons instead of relying on iron sights, command/control/communications systems that put most 40k tech to shame (nothing like an AWACS and its associated networked systems and air defense theory has ever been evidenced in 40k even by the likes of the Eldar or Tau), dramatically more extensive electronics encryption/decryption/snooping technologies than those typically evidenced in 40k, extensive automation, explosive-reactive armors, hard-kill interceptor systems to destroy incoming guided missiles/bombs/tank rounds/etc, widespread and common GPS technology and high definition cameras everywhere, etc ad nauseum. How much 40k history would be different if everyone had devices analogous to the ubiquitous 21st century smartphones and all their capabilities?

Most stuff in 40k just doesn't work once you start comparing it to the real world, it's a Tolkien-esque fantasy universe where the most advanced combat is typically re-skinned WW2 engagements with a sci-fi texture pack slapped on top, while space battles are (by the admission of those writing the background and rules) fought in the manner of Trafalgar or Jutland

nothing like an AWACS and its associated networked systems and air defense theory has ever been evidenced in 40k even by the likes of the Eldar or Tau

Pretty sure the Knight world has one in the Andy Clark novels - but they also have a intergrated combined arms force.

entire armies equipped with enhanced optics on even basic infantry weapons instead of relying on iron sights,

Limited to Marines, Sisters, Ad Mech and better equipped Guard

No advantage, no disadvantage; it's already the same
21st century: 99% ruled by 1% of money fascists
40k mill: 99% ruled by 1% of doctrine fascists

edit:the exaggeration / hyperbole is voluntary

Well, the immediate disadvantage would be the crumbling, poorly organised, poorly maintained, perpetual nightmare state of the Imperium - in which existence is agony and life is a constant, alienated disaster. Truly it is better never to have been for someone who exists in 40k, because in most cases, they will not live well.

The advantages all come with major catches; 0% unemployment (I mean this is just straight up wrong, plenty of Imperial worlds have unemployment, beggars and such) does not actually guarantee any good pay and unlike say in the IRL Soviet Union which had 100% employment, you'll most likely actually be working (rather than just standing around). Most likely you'll be working yourself to death.

Space travel is slow, arduous and extremely dangerous. There are people who never leave the ships they board - becoming fuel or being condemned to live within the bowels of the vessel.

Mechanical implants clearly are extremely cumbersome.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Shame that most citizens never will, because of the backbreaking conditions of their serfdom.

I mean, as said above - we *technically* all have the ability to fly in aeroplanes, or even leave atmosphere. But not everyone can.

The only advantages 40k offers are either only accessible to the top 0.000001% of humanity

So, like real world right now?

You can spend, right now, 2 weeks vacation on a space station. Or build supertall, luxurious apartment tower with endless swimming pool on top with dedicated, private elevator dumping you right in the water. Or buy vast "yacht" (which is so big it really should be called pocket cruise ship) with private helicopter pad and gun turrets to fend off pirates and smaller coastal guard ships. The above are things that top 0.000001% of humanity partaken in during the last decade. How is it different than private space yacht or spire on a hive? You won't touch real advantages one could have right now either.

Hell, we have real news about the rich that would feel over the top in 40K, too bad people just don't pay any attention and think the setting that started as a cartoonish image of some very real scum on Earth is somehow 'unrealistic' when we have resources to do so much better yet we're too busy surviving to look up and see there is not very much difference between real 1% and their parody. In fact, for a lot of the world, conditions in your typical 40K world would be a vast improvement.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
or are only advantages if you look at them whilst squinting hard "you don't have to worry about what religion to follow!"

I like how you look at this and fail to realize how GIGANTIC advantage that is. Try looking straight at this sentence, instead of squinting.

Imperium doesn't care what gender you are. Women, or people we term 'minority' now don't experience any hate, and can in fact become a space pope, or high lord of Terra, or warmaster of the entire Imperium. There are hundreds of examples of people rising to power we can't even image entirely on merit. There are whole female regiments. In multiple books, no one gives a damn about your sexual orientation. There is formally one church, yet one that is umbrella to billions of different religions, teaching every single one of them is equal (yes, there are religious wars but remarkably less than we had in our history so far and mostly directed at the sects planning to open literal gate to hell killing everyone on the planet, instead at people who ate bread and/or wine in slightly different way, which is really sad when you think about it).

Etc, etc, for all the talk about 'cruelest regime imaginable' the Imperium would look downright utopian to hundreds of millions of people alive right now. Let that sink in. And that is even without considering there are tons of 'civilized' worlds in Imperium that would be utopian and impossibly advanced to anyone alive now. Bottom of the hive is really not the majority, or even default in IoM.Try looking up conditions in sub-Saharan Africa, or Brazilian favela, or tons of other places, then try saying that 'meaningless advantages' line with a straight face.

Irbis wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Shame that most citizens never will, because of the backbreaking conditions of their serfdom.

I mean, as said above - we *technically* all have the ability to fly in aeroplanes, or even leave atmosphere. But not everyone can.

The only advantages 40k offers are either only accessible to the top 0.000001% of humanity

So, like real world right now?

You can spend, right now, 2 weeks vacation on a space station. Or build supertall, luxurious apartment tower with endless swimming pool on top with dedicated, private elevator dumping you right in the water. Or buy vast "yacht" (which is so big it really should be called pocket cruise ship) with private helicopter pad and gun turrets to fend off pirates and smaller coastal guard ships. The above are things that top 0.000001% of humanity partaken in during the last decade. How is it different than private space yacht or spire on a hive? You won't touch real advantages one could have right now either.

Hell, we have real news about the rich that would feel over the top in 40K, too bad people just don't pay any attention and think the setting that started as a cartoonish image of some very real scum on Earth is somehow 'unrealistic' when we have resources to do so much better yet we're too busy surviving to look up and see there is not very much difference between real 1% and their parody. In fact, for a lot of the world, conditions in your typical 40K world would be a vast improvement.

Oh absolutely. I did say I echoed an earlier comment of "tell a homeless man that their current life is at an advantage because they can fly!". It's that if I saw someone say something like "40k has so many advantages, you can be a Space Marine and be functionally unageing, and travel in space, and have cool weapons and armour and etc", it would be horrifically out-of-touch with the vast majority of the people involved.

And while I totally agree the real world is packed full of that disparity, it's *even worse* in 40k.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
or are only advantages if you look at them whilst squinting hard "you don't have to worry about what religion to follow!"

I like how you look at this and fail to realize how GIGANTIC advantage that is. Try looking straight at this sentence, instead of squinting.

Imperium doesn't care what gender you are.

Does for the sake of Space Marines and Sisters of Battle. And Custodes, apparently.

But, I know you're talking about the vast majority of people.

Women, or people we term 'minority' now don't experience any hate, and can in fact become a space pope, or high lord of Terra, or warmaster of the entire Imperium. There are hundreds of examples of people rising to power we can't even image entirely on merit. There are whole female regiments. In multiple books, no one gives a damn about your sexual orientation. There is formally one church, yet one that is umbrella to billions of different religions, teaching every single one of them is equal (yes, there are religious wars but remarkably less than we had in our history so far and mostly directed at the sects planning to open literal gate to hell killing everyone on the planet, instead at people who ate bread and/or wine in slightly different way, which is really sad when you think about it).

But you get no choice in following that faith. Atheism is outlawed. Your only choice is "which flavour of Emperor worship!" (and even then, that might largely be decided on whatever world you were raised on, and if you disagree with that particular teaching, you'll find yourself ostracised). You don't get to choose, say, the Eldar Pantheon. You don't get to choose to follow the Greater Good. You don't get the freedom to pick a Chaos God, or a C'Tan, or anything like that without painting yourself as a heretic.

Sorry, I still think that's a terrible advantage. It's taking your freedom of choice, and replacing with a single option.

Etc, etc, for all the talk about 'cruelest regime imaginable' the Imperium would look downright utopian to hundreds of millions of people alive right now. Let that sink in. And that is even without considering there are tons of 'civilized' worlds in Imperium that would be utopian and impossibly advanced to anyone alive now. Bottom of the hive is really not the majority, or even default in IoM.

Actually, I'm fairly sure it is the majority. Even if not on the planetary scale, in terms of human population centres, it certainly is. The vast majority of humans, across the length and breadth of the Imperium, live in worse conditions than the places you mention. Sure, yeah, there are worlds with better outcomes - a stable feudal world, a pleasure planet, maybe on a particularly benevolent Chapter's homeworld, or civilised world. And sure, you could land yourself a nice place from birth as a cousin of a minor lord, which would be vastly superior to our own lives. But on the cosmic scale of things? These are astronomically unlikely to be the fates of anyone on earth. There's very little chance your life become substantially better. Maybe that's because my interpretation of the Imperium's far more bleak than yours.

As awful as the real world is (and it is, I'm not disputing that), 40k *is* worse. Only by pure, sheer luck and fluke of birth, time and place do you really succeed in 40k, even more so than the terrible lottery of life here.

 Irbis wrote:
Imperium doesn't care what gender you are. Women, or people we term 'minority' now don't experience any hate, and can in fact become a space pope, or high lord of Terra, or warmaster of the entire Imperium. There are hundreds of examples of people rising to power we can't even image entirely on merit.

That's true... as long as you're a proper human. You better hope you weren't born as any strain of abhuman or a mutant or even worse: a witch.

The people of the Imperium are absolutely not free from discrimination. They just have different criteria than we do.

 Irbis wrote:
In fact, for a lot of the world, conditions in your typical 40K world would be a vast improvement.

Hrm, the lore for the 40k universe seems to go out of its way to tell us right up front, point blank, this isn't so.

Imperium doesn't care what gender you are. Women, or people we term 'minority' now don't experience any hate, and can in fact become a space pope, or high lord of Terra, or warmaster of the entire Imperium.

On those grounds, sure, but connections and class status are even more important in the Imperium. And you'd better hope you don't have a weird birthmark, abnormal birth defect, or major genetic drift, much less a significant mutation.

There are hundreds of examples of people rising to power we can't even image entirely on merit.

Over a period of ten thousand years, a few among untold trillions, and typically even then only after substantial self sacrifice.

There are whole female regiments. In multiple books, no one gives a damn about your sexual orientation.

Sure, because the meat grinders of various sorts they're all shoved into don't care. Just because one type of persecution doesn't exist doesn't mean the absence of others. Gender equality is a wonderful thing, but I'm not sure it's a concern anyone is particularly thinking about when being conscripted and placed under brutal discipline to go fight gibbling horrors on the other side of the galaxy for the rest of one's short life, or being assigned to Manufactorum #987HZ9BN7V to scrape toxic mung off the walls of a machine nobody understands the workings of for 18 hour shifts until you get rot-lung and die.

There is formally one church, yet one that is umbrella to billions of different religions, teaching every single one of them is equal (yes, there are religious wars but remarkably less than we had in our history so far and mostly directed at the sects planning to open literal gate to hell killing everyone on the planet, instead at people who ate bread and/or wine in slightly different way, which is really sad when you think about it).

You do not however get a say in what you think of that one church, how it operates, or whether to worship at all. Likewise, methinks we've missed the many wars of faith and inter-Ecclesiastic conflicts that have burned entire worlds and slain untold billions. Different sects of the Imperial Cult see often other sects as heretical, same with Inquisitors, and the 40k universe is replete with massive bloodshedding over such conflicts, not just Chaos worship and genestealer cults and the like.

Try looking up conditions in sub-Saharan Africa, or Brazilian favela, or tons of other places, then try saying that 'meaningless advantages' line with a straight face.

Take those places, layer on even more draconian all powerful theocratic police states and substantially more invasive authorities, and you get typical 40k life. Are there nice places? Yes. Would it be wonderful to live a middle class life on Ultramar? Probably. Does that represent your average person? No.

 Mr Morden wrote:

entire armies equipped with enhanced optics on even basic infantry weapons instead of relying on iron sights,

Limited to Marines, Sisters, Ad Mech and better equipped Guard

Oddly enough, even then it's not universal, tons of such models have no optics on their weapons, even when they're running around without their helmets that may or may not have targeting assist gizmos

Advantages: We live in 40k.

Disadvantages: We live in 40k.

 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
So let's collect some advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage.

One can go space travel.

Advanced technology IF you have access to it.

Medical advancements again IF you have access to it.

If you just some grunt living in a hive hab working in a munitions factory your life is significantly worse then that of the average working man in the first world in the 21 century.

You would need to be at least highter middle class to have significant advantages over someone living in the 1st world in the 21st century

Hard to say for the reason that there is huge stratification in the imperium (and 21st century earth).

You might as well say, is it better living in Portugal or the USA. Depends whether you meant destitute portugal and Jeff Bezos America, or wealthy portugal and trailer park poverty USA

If you have access to it, and time to enjoy it - art and cultural entertainment.

Earth has a lot, and it's all pretty organised and easily accessible by things like internet streaming and national museums and television channels.

The Imperium's is scattered, disorganised and obviously very monolithic in theme (don't expect to see political caricatures or poems lamenting why we can't make peace with other races make it into public exhibitions), but bloody hell there's a lot of it.

If we assume each major world produces only one must-listen-before-you-die piece of music a century then even ignoring pre-imperial history, which is fragmented but still there, there's something like a hundred million such pieces or collections.