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So I am quite fascinated by the Broken Realms involving this plot line since it’s a great bit of hubris and would be really cool if it happened. I do suspect this may be a Psychic Awakening situation where nothing changes and there are no consequences. But I think they could do some interesting stuff here.

I think Morathi should succeed because there would be huge cost to it and she won’t actually get what she wants. Her bitterness was due to not having a seat at the table of the pantheon. She wants her peers respect and love. So it’s not power purely for its own sake. If obtaining Godhood means she releases Slannesh then she would be an outcast God to all apart from her son. She’ll always be a monster type deal.

Plus, she would probably lose the support of a massive chunk of the Daughters. So I’m trying to escape being a monster she would again have only made herself one in her followers eyes. In fact I think they may switch around how Slannesh and the Daughters work with one going from a united faction to split into several groups with different agendas whilst the other unites around their returned deity. It would be a nice parallel between Morathi becoming a God and Slannesh escaping. Which you could reflect on the rules with some cults continuing the Quest for Khaine whilst others just worship Morathon outright and maybe even cults which honour both as dual aspects. In fact it would be cool and poetic justice for a God with no followers to be weaker than a Demi God with them.

Also it would just be cool if she went full super sayen mode. I love how the Realm Gate Wars conveyed Allarielle being this force of nature whose reawakening made the mountains quake and that would feel like a payoff to the story. Obviously the models are just avatars which are separate to the high level shenanigans the other deities do. I mean she kind of is informally on that level. The devs keep saying she’s part of the Aelven Pantheon and she does stuff like kill God Beasts so it won’t be as massive a change.

Of course. It usually doesn’t end too well trying to become a God. Pride before the fall. That artwork did kind of look like the ritual was being interrupted with the cauldron shattering. That does feel more likely and they could keep the story in limbo in this case.

As an aside this might actually spur me on to finish the army I’ve had for over a year now.

I see Morathi as an individual who has a compulsive fixation on deception and cutthroat politics. I don't think she could stop even if she wanted to. Having a core, immutable part of her being in such a way very much plays into what defines a god in AoS.

As that relates to her becoming one, I would be excited to see how they go about writing it. The way I see it her massive lie about Khaine is completely unnecessary--if she had built the cult to just worship her without Khaine as a 'middle-man' they would. Heck, I think if she just flat out said "hey, you worship me now" the vast majority of DoK would be like "cool, were more or less doing that anyways" she has been culling less-loyal elements for quite a long time.

Will they do it? Maybe. AoS campaign books are not analogous to 40k ones. The last campaign was Wrath of the Everchosen, in which Death takes over the Shyish gate in Eightpoints. That may not have an impact on models but lore-wise it is a pretty big fething deal. The campaign before that was Forbidden Power, which saw Katakros' soul released from imprisonment thus allowing him to get a physical body (the model) and take command of OBR, which is again a pretty big fething deal. AoS campaign content has consistently provided significant plot development, so I am not at all concerned about Broken Realms doing so as well.

She can't outright have her people worship her, she's not a god. Far as I can tell with the way belief works within the Realms you have to have a property about yourself that makes you a god which then lets you tap into the energies of belief of a people.

Morathi isn't a goddess, so she cannot tap into that element directly on her own. It's simply beyond her. So if her people worshipped her it would be "empty". She would gain no additional power.


Instead she has the Heart of Khaine - Khaine being a god himself. He has fallen and been shattered, but clearly the belief of his worshippers in Khaine is channelled partly or fully into his heart. Morathi is then able to syphon/leech off that energy for her own needs.


So it benefits her to remain an Oracle for a religion that she is not technically the head of. She gets all the control and the additional power of a people's belief in a god.







As for her rising up to a full Goddess level I'm not sure that should just happen for her. Instead I'd rather see something more twisted - say Khaine's heart managing to build up enough energy that Khaine is restored. At which point Morathi has to either compete for his favour (yes I was bad but look I built you a whole nation and it kinda works); or perhaps try and trick or even romance the ancient god to secure her position. A bit like the whole setup between Rita Repulsa and Zordon (yes I'm making a Power Rangers reference here).

Another aspect could be that threats to herself cause her to decide to consume the Heart of Khaine to protect it from others; suddenly resulting in her own body being even more twisted and tormented mentally between two living creatures.

Then there's the option of uprising within the Cult itself. Morathi broods over her own faction with a manic level of secret policing. Any Queen that might threaten her position is bitten by her head snakes and blessed/turned into a thrall of her will - the Bloodwracks. Meanwhile Melusai and Khinerai are her elite troops loyal to her* rather than to the temples that they are gifted too. Again more secrets and more clock and dagger that could feed a festering uprising within her own people.
Not forgetting that the DoK have a very "Alpha" view to the whole "Survival of the Fittest" and yet the bulk of their own male population are weak and sickly compared to many others. If it were to get out that that was Morathi's doing it could be another chink in her armour of retaining control over her faction. Indeed a powerful coven of queens could find ways to interrupt Morathi's power flow - not wanting to lose it (that would lose the faction as a whole power) but enough to impose their will over the Oracle of Khaine.



There are loads of fun ways that her faction could go!




*We don't actually know that much about either group. We don't know if they can breed true to their form; or if they are only able to be made with old souls and newly formed bodies. We don't really know how they think or controlled. Are they mindwashed or simply indoctrinated by Morathi; or are they magically slaved to her will without choice. Both present interesting ways in which their lore can develop.

Another interesting thing is that they are always described as a secret army, yet we are seeing them appear more and more in the realms. Might be that they've lost that secret edge by now. Heck Khinerai fly around with Stormcast facemasks on their hips; that's more than enough reason for Stormcast to be aware of them and somewhat annoyed!

I think Morathi as a Goddess would be good for the story and she is still very anti- Chaos/Slaanesh.

Love for BL to have some Age of Myth stores of the Pantheon interacting with each other.

I am good with the story going either way on her ascending or not. Perhaps the biggest issue I would have is Daughters of Morathi doesn't have the same ring to me. I am sure I would quickly get used to it though.

Ohhhh, thank you for explaining that Overread, I feel dim for missing it now >.<


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 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I am good with the story going either way on her ascending or not. Perhaps the biggest issue I would have is Daughters of Morathi doesn't have the same ring to me. I am sure I would quickly get used to it though.

This man understands the true crisis!

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I am good with the story going either way on her ascending or not. Perhaps the biggest issue I would have is Daughters of Morathi doesn't have the same ring to me. I am sure I would quickly get used to it though.

But isn’t her plan effectively to become Khaine? So she would have that as one of her titles? So they would still be Daughters of Khaine and the statues/icons are simply symbolic icons.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Ohhhh, thank you for explaining that Overread, I feel dim for missing it now >.<

No problem

It also helps explain how the Warcry Warbands work as well. See with the humans of the realms mostly shattered into nations/cities/bands/tribes etc... that all worship different gods one would think the realms would be full of minor and less minor gods of varying power. Instead belief in a god doesn't make a god. So the Untamed Beasts worshipping the Great Destroyer aren't actually creating or empowering that god. Instead behind the scenes is a greater demon, who by extension of being part of a Chaos God themselves, is able to channel and take that belief. Of course they also give boons back and such to ensure that the tribe worships them continually. However its possible for different demons of even different Chaos Gods to compete and battle in the background for that belief - two Untamed Beasts tribes could worship the same "god" but behind the scenes one might be worshipping a Keeper of Secrets and the other a Bloodthirster.


It's perhaps one of the greatest tricks of Chaos as a result of Sigmar and the other gods pulling away during the early part of the Age of Chaos. All the belief in the realms is fragmented on the surface, yet behind the scenes its all being channelled into Chaos. Many of the tribes might not even realise that they are worshipping chaos itself. They might even fight against it. Those that make it to the 8 Points appear to be more in tune with the Chaos side of things as they are questing to join the Chaos legions - though even then they are still worshipping their chosen god not a "chaos god". That likely comes only later as they advance up the ranks and ascend to the lofty heights of not just a wild warrior mob, but a chaos warrior. When "The Truth" is likely revealed to them and they embrace their true Chaos Gods.


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 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I am good with the story going either way on her ascending or not. Perhaps the biggest issue I would have is Daughters of Morathi doesn't have the same ring to me. I am sure I would quickly get used to it though.

But isn’t her plan effectively to become Khaine? So she would have that as one of her titles? So they would still be Daughters of Khaine and the statues/icons are simply symbolic icons.

If the people worship Khaine then the power gods to Khaine and his remnant (heart). If the people worship Morathi the belief goes nowhere because she's not a god so she can't directly take that power. It's just easier for her to maintain the lie that she's an Oracle than it is to actually take the throne and have to constantly say "worship me - but actually worship Khaine". Much easier to simply bless any Queen that gets a hint that Khaine might not be there, with a snakes bite and corruption into a Bloodwrack, than it is to have to constantly be twisting all the information two ways.


Khaine is one of Morathi's biggest risks. She draws great power from the heart and if she lost it or it were damaged that would seriously affect her powers. In addition if the heart were to start to hoard power then there's the real chance that Khaine could be reborn. It's likely a risk Morathi dances with daily - how much power can she syphon off without killing/destorying/damaging the heart vs how much can she leave safely inside it without it gaining any additional properties outside her control.


She's a leader right on the knife edge of control - of her own body, her powers, her nation, her god. At any one moment everything could fall one side or the other. She can't even fully control her body; intense emotions (like rage) can cause her to lose the ability to mask herself and force her into her winged snake form.

So, what's the distinction with other Elves that we Know? Teclis, Tyrion, Allareille, etc didn't seem to have any trouble becoming gods, even if Teclis seems a little comically inept when it comes to ruining his followers,

So what's different for them that they didn't have to worry about not attaining godhood like Morathi?

They basically attained their godlike status during the End Times events when those that could fled the Old World and made it to the Mortal Realms.

Morathi didn't get a chance, she was consumed by Slaanesh. However she managed to claw her way out of the Gods bloated belly and "fell" into the Realm of Shadow. She then mostly wandered around until she was found and brought into the fold.

Of course her body was warped by the chaos energies. She eventually learned to weave a spell to hide her form which is why her model has two forms; the small elf that is her spell form and the huge serpent winged monster that is her true body as she is now.


Because she wasn't there "at the start" she's basically got a very hard time to secure any kind of godlike power. So she's currently syphoning off god-energies from Khaine who's heart she is in possession of.

 Overread wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Ohhhh, thank you for explaining that Overread, I feel dim for missing it now >.<

No problem

It also helps explain how the Warcry Warbands work as well. See with the humans of the realms mostly shattered into nations/cities/bands/tribes etc... that all worship different gods one would think the realms would be full of minor and less minor gods of varying power. Instead belief in a god doesn't make a god. So the Untamed Beasts worshipping the Great Destroyer aren't actually creating or empowering that god. Instead behind the scenes is a greater demon, who by extension of being part of a Chaos God themselves, is able to channel and take that belief. Of course they also give boons back and such to ensure that the tribe worships them continually. However its possible for different demons of even different Chaos Gods to compete and battle in the background for that belief - two Untamed Beasts tribes could worship the same "god" but behind the scenes one might be worshipping a Keeper of Secrets and the other a Bloodthirster.

It's perhaps one of the greatest tricks of Chaos as a result of Sigmar and the other gods pulling away during the early part of the Age of Chaos. All the belief in the realms is fragmented on the surface, yet behind the scenes its all being channelled into Chaos. Many of the tribes might not even realise that they are worshipping chaos itself. They might even fight against it. Those that make it to the 8 Points appear to be more in tune with the Chaos side of things as they are questing to join the Chaos legions - though even then they are still worshipping their chosen god not a "chaos god". That likely comes only later as they advance up the ranks and ascend to the lofty heights of not just a wild warrior mob, but a chaos warrior. When "The Truth" is likely revealed to them and they embrace their true Chaos Gods.

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 Totalwar1402 wrote:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
I am good with the story going either way on her ascending or not. Perhaps the biggest issue I would have is Daughters of Morathi doesn't have the same ring to me. I am sure I would quickly get used to it though.

But isn’t her plan effectively to become Khaine? So she would have that as one of her titles? So they would still be Daughters of Khaine and the statues/icons are simply symbolic icons.

If the people worship Khaine then the power gods to Khaine and his remnant (heart). If the people worship Morathi the belief goes nowhere because she's not a god so she can't directly take that power. It's just easier for her to maintain the lie that she's an Oracle than it is to actually take the throne and have to constantly say "worship me - but actually worship Khaine". Much easier to simply bless any Queen that gets a hint that Khaine might not be there, with a snakes bite and corruption into a Bloodwrack, than it is to have to constantly be twisting all the information two ways.


Khaine is one of Morathi's biggest risks. She draws great power from the heart and if she lost it or it were damaged that would seriously affect her powers. In addition if the heart were to start to hoard power then there's the real chance that Khaine could be reborn. It's likely a risk Morathi dances with daily - how much power can she syphon off without killing/destorying/damaging the heart vs how much can she leave safely inside it without it gaining any additional properties outside her control.

She's a leader right on the knife edge of control - of her own body, her powers, her nation, her god. At any one moment everything could fall one side or the other. She can't even fully control her body; intense emotions (like rage) can cause her to lose the ability to mask herself and force her into her winged snake form.

Good post - however I don;t think the heart can be destroyed - Khorne tried to do as the height of his power and could do nothing more than squeeze blood from it. Agreed that the biggest risk is the heart gaining enough power to rebuild Khaine - if it was removed from her - likely it would happen.

I am hoping we get a meaty story but worried by what we got with Pyschic Awakening - also hoping that we have some interaction between Neferata and Morathi - they would have known each other in the Pantheon and of course may even recall the other from the World that Was as a fellow master manipulator of nations.

Honestly the only reason we don't have more Neferata is that we don't yet have a proper vampire army in the game. Right now DoK are running around being the second most bloodthirsty in the game (likely after Khorne). A fully fledged Vampire army would be a great sight to see, esp as they've been popular in the past and GW continues to keep them quite active in the games lore.

Like Shadow Aelves and Steam-punk humans I think its more a case of "When" rather than if.




Also don't forget AoS already has one Chaos God in bindings. The writers seem more free to do major events like that even though, tabletop side, it has no impact.

Morathi should get her godhead because GW is horrible at writing female characters and this would at least reward her skills in securing power.
Seriously, of the two most powerful females in the setting one is depicted as "sneaky and underhanded" for trying to get power equal to the other gods, falling into the usual "women in power are scheming and untrustworthy" trope, while Alarielle was swinging between "useless and resigned" and currently "filled with power, but emotional and attacking even allies if they anger her". You know, emotionally unstable in other words.

Morathi has been sneaky and underhanded since she began; its true to 30 years of her character to be how she is today.

Cronch wrote:
Morathi should get her godhead because GW is horrible at writing female characters and this would at least reward her skills in securing power.
Seriously, of the two most powerful females in the setting one is depicted as "sneaky and underhanded" for trying to get power equal to the other gods, falling into the usual "women in power are scheming and untrustworthy" trope, while Alarielle was swinging between "useless and resigned" and currently "filled with power, but emotional and attacking even allies if they anger her". You know, emotionally unstable in other words.

There are now quite a few prominant female characters in the Mortal Realms lore - some of the Stormcast, others human, Aelven or Duardin or others - especially in the novels

Morathi has always been power hungry, devious and untrustworthy - with her only real weak spot her love for her Aenarion.
Allarielle is Life and Nature and should be somewhat unpredictable.

and the other Aelf gods are no better:

Malerion is devious and untrustworthy
Tyrion is arrogant and disdainful
Telcis is devious, untrustworthy and arrogant - look at the mess he made of the End Times and then the Idoneth - constrast especialyl with the success Morathi has had with her cult that is now part of the society of Azyr and the other Realms. I am interested to see how this evolves in the coming story.

They are all, as perhaps it should be, the personifcation of what is bad (and sometimes good) in the race.

Neferata is also immensly powerful but devious and untrustworthy - at least when written correctly.

The male gods are bastions of positive character traits.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The male gods are bastions of positive character traits.

er not really.

As I menitoned above :
Malerion is devious and untrustworthy
Tyrion is wrathful, arrogant and disdainful
Telcis is devious, untrustworthy and arrogant - he created and abandoned entire races.
Nagash is well Nagash - he wants to kill everything else in the universe so he alone controls it.
Sigmar is arrogant and tends to drive others away by his demands
Grimnar is blinded by his honour

They are ALL old school gods - full of emotion, jealousy and plots.

Apologies, I thought a statement that obviously false would read as sarcasm. I misjudged.

At any rate, you highlight the point; all the gods are flawed and often dramatically so, not to mention many being antagonists. If the female gods were anything but THAT would be sexism. As it stands the fluff sends the message that female gods are suceptable to the same scale of flaws and morality the male ones are.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Apologies, I thought a statement that obviously false would read as sarcasm. I misjudged.

At any rate, you highlight the point; all the gods are flawed and often dramatically so, not to mention many being antagonists. If the female gods were anything but THAT would be sexism. As it stands the fluff sends the message that female gods are suceptable to the same scale of flaws and morality the male ones are.

I figured as much since all of AoS gods are patently not paragons of virtue. I like AoS's direction with its gods. I am not going to articulate that well, but I like the Greco-Roman epic myth route they are taking with them. Sans Sigmar and the dispersed gods, they walk realms and take an active part in its shaping. Which someone is kinda refreshing from the aloof, this is my portfolio of power and maybe I have like enough traits to seem at least two dimensional from many other fantasy settings. Again, not really original, but uncommon in generic fantasy settings. Which is enough for me to appreciate it. And following suit with its inspiration, each deity has magnified traits usually both positive and negative.

[As a would be Lumineth player] Except Teclis, who is knowledge, wisdom and generally perfection personified. So much better than any other entity that the game should be called Age of Teclis now.

I also like how they have managed divinity in AoS. I like how they have managed quite a lot of the fluff in AoS for that matter, mostly the launch execution that left just a little to be desired*.

*Sarcasm

The interesting part is that all of the non-chaos gods are fragile. For the most part they are gods who can die.

At the same time its clear that there is potential for others to find the secrets of godhood and arise to challenge them.

It creates a divine setting that is full of the potential for change. The neat thing here is that you can add and remove gods and have it as a huge story point and it won't change their faction on the ground.

Much like Slaanesh being out of action has had no impact on the army in the game. It's a huge story point, but game wise it has zero effect.

Personally no roster of God models will be complete until we get blind Tyrion riding a dragon called Malhandir (or a giant Pegasus type creature of the same name).


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And he still has Sunfang but this time it is actually modelled with


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Maybe the plot and events of this campaign are what finally draw Malerion out of Ulgu and into the game properly and it starts the Shadow Aelf release because Mal has to come and sort mummy dearest out

 Overread wrote:
The interesting part is that all of the non-chaos gods are fragile. For the most part they are gods who can die.

At the same time its clear that there is potential for others to find the secrets of godhood and arise to challenge them.

It creates a divine setting that is full of the potential for change. The neat thing here is that you can add and remove gods and have it as a huge story point and it won't change their faction on the ground.

Much like Slaanesh being out of action has had no impact on the army in the game. It's a huge story point, but game wise it has zero effect.

Yeah and they should be worried because they refuse to give gotrek his doom and now he's coming for em!

I could just do with a new Gotrek book in the Mortal Realms - or a new Audiodrama

I totally think Morathi should succeed in becoming a Goddess. I mean, look at her miniature. It's goddess-worthy.

Joke aside, I think she will fail in the upcoming book that will resolve nothing at all in the end and keep the story going to whatever version of AoS Psychic Awakening the Broken Realms series will be, until we obtain a V3.

The point of Morathi is she's a plotting character. She needs to plot, and fail, so that she can keep plotting (and being grumpy about it).

Also, the gods that aren't from Chaos are either ancient beings who were there before the "intruders" from Warhammer Battle came, either the said intruders who got attuned to a Wind of Magic during the End Times.

Morathi is an intruder but was never attuned to a Wind of Magic. And she's bitter her former son is not willing to share a part of his power with her (since she betrayed him during End Times, it's not that surprising - well she betrayed him for quite a lot of times before as well, anyway).

I believe the main plot of her "goddesshood plan" is about the Heart of Khaine as well.

I also think that Khaine will be playing a big role in Broken Realms...and that the old link Tyrion had with him in End Times won't be done in AoS as well.

I really really hope that some of the ramifications from the malign sorcery world campaign make an appearance---Khorgos Kul, the chronowhatsit, etc.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I really really hope that some of the ramifications from the malign sorcery world campaign make an appearance---Khorgos Kul, the chronowhatsit, etc.

Khorgos Kul is a named character for the Blades of Khorne battletome. I guess he'll be used at least as background character in some story somewhere when Chaos becomes relevant in the series.

The chronostuff, I don't remember. Wonder if its impact is really worthy to mention again. If we can't even remember its full name, maybe not.

Makes sense GW makes the Broken Realms series about named characters / gods in AoS, since the universe is still very vague in the end. I mean, we have some places to fight for, but the maps are so huge and the named places we may care for so few...

Khorgos is a bit more than just some random named character; he was the main antagonist in the first AoS starter and campaign book, featured heavily in the Realmgate Wars, and has his own novel. Few AoS characters have that much. Before Malign Portents he had his own 'moon' that flew around the realms with his armies fortified upon it.