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Hi I’m a returning player from 7th Ed and have been playing since 3rd on and off . I played Tau originally and moved to DE in 7th with a venom / corpse thief claw list.

I want to get back in to playing and start playing competitively. Mostly just want games to be close.

I will be starting fresh and after painting some stuff from my pile of shame I still like painting DE and still don’t like painting masses of flat panelling. Would if a fast kabal/wych cult list would work. But I don’t know what I want to play I know I want speed . Any suggestions or pointers for 9th?

If you want to start playing competitively, then you better go for Space Marines, in particular Primaris units.
Go for (twice) the Indomitus box, it contains some fast and deadly units.

 wuestenfux wrote:
If you want to start playing competitively, then you better go for Space Marines, in particular Primaris units.
Go for (twice) the Indomitus box, it contains some fast and deadly units.

This is horriable advice. between FAqs and the fact that we'll presumably get a new codex cycle with this edition, the meta changes to fast to buy an entire new army just to "chase the meta dragon" I mean for all we know by time you assmble and paint an army of marines, Codex Orkz 9th edition could come out and that's the new meta (just using Orks as a random example here guys, although god knows they're due a bit of time in the sun) if you like painting dark eldar, then I'd reccomend painting dark eldar dude.

killer4571 wrote:
Hi I’m a returning player from 7th Ed and have been playing since 3rd on and off . I played Tau originally and moved to DE in 7th with a venom / corpse thief claw list.

I want to get back in to playing and start playing competitively. Mostly just want games to be close.

I will be starting fresh and after painting some stuff from my pile of shame I still like painting DE and still don’t like painting masses of flat panelling. Would if a fast kabal/wych cult list would work. But I don’t know what I want to play I know I want speed . Any suggestions or pointers for 9th?

Drukhari aren't currently competitive, and the lists that are currently doing ok are Coven based.

Negativity out of the way, we are only just into 9th and things may change, furthermore you can certainly have fun with Drukahri and not be embarrassed.

If you don't like painting "masses of flat panelling" I would recommend a paint scheme that is based around a primer spray colour. That way you can prime the vehicle, and then highlight the edges in a bright, contrasting colour, and it's almost done.

 harlokin wrote:

killer4571 wrote:
Hi I’m a returning player from 7th Ed and have been playing since 3rd on and off . I played Tau originally and moved to DE in 7th with a venom / corpse thief claw list.

I want to get back in to playing and start playing competitively. Mostly just want games to be close.

I will be starting fresh and after painting some stuff from my pile of shame I still like painting DE and still don’t like painting masses of flat panelling. Would if a fast kabal/wych cult list would work. But I don’t know what I want to play I know I want speed . Any suggestions or pointers for 9th?

Drukhari aren't currently competitive, and the lists that are currently doing ok are Coven based.

Negativity out of the way, we are only just into 9th and things may change, furthermore you can certainly have fun with Drukahri and not be embarrassed.

If you don't like painting "masses of flat panelling" I would recommend a paint scheme that is based around a primer spray colour. That way you can prime the vehicle, and then highlight the edges in a bright, contrasting colour, and it's almost done.

Yeah the non competitive part is putting me off a little but I’ve never like the super competitive army’s (read as marines and aldari) because if there super clean flat looks. I might just have to say screw it and make a non meta list to drown my enemy’s in splinter fire with.

Have you considered Death Guard? They're still pretty strong, and the flat panels of their armour are mostly broken up with damage, tentacles, boils and whatnot.

killer4571 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

killer4571 wrote:
Hi I’m a returning player from 7th Ed and have been playing since 3rd on and off . I played Tau originally and moved to DE in 7th with a venom / corpse thief claw list.

I want to get back in to playing and start playing competitively. Mostly just want games to be close.

I will be starting fresh and after painting some stuff from my pile of shame I still like painting DE and still don’t like painting masses of flat panelling. Would if a fast kabal/wych cult list would work. But I don’t know what I want to play I know I want speed . Any suggestions or pointers for 9th?

Drukhari aren't currently competitive, and the lists that are currently doing ok are Coven based.

Negativity out of the way, we are only just into 9th and things may change, furthermore you can certainly have fun with Drukahri and not be embarrassed.

If you don't like painting "masses of flat panelling" I would recommend a paint scheme that is based around a primer spray colour. That way you can prime the vehicle, and then highlight the edges in a bright, contrasting colour, and it's almost done.

Yeah the non competitive part is putting me off a little but I’ve never like the super competitive army’s (read as marines and aldari) because if there super clean flat looks. I might just have to say screw it and make a non meta list to drown my enemy’s in splinter fire with.

That's my take on it too, I only play Drukhari, and even if the rules for the aren't good right now, they are still fun, and they have a great model line with a lot of variation which makes them enjoyable to paint.

Check out the Drukhari thread in the Tactics subforum, I posted a list being used by Skari (a very successful Drukhari player), which incorporates a mix of Wych Cult, Kabalites, Beasts, and Coven: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/789657.page#10907488

BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
If you want to start playing competitively, then you better go for Space Marines, in particular Primaris units.
Go for (twice) the Indomitus box, it contains some fast and deadly units.

This is horriable advice. between FAqs and the fact that we'll presumably get a new codex cycle with this edition, the meta changes to fast to buy an entire new army just to "chase the meta dragon" I mean for all we know by time you assmble and paint an army of marines, Codex Orkz 9th edition could come out and that's the new meta (just using Orks as a random example here guys, although god knows they're due a bit of time in the sun) if you like painting dark eldar, then I'd reccomend painting dark eldar dude.

Well marines are GW's pet boys. Rest are NPC races. So safest bet for competive army IS marines. Exact chapter might differ(8e iron hands, 9e white scars or salamanders) but that's changed by writing on army list. Might need to buy some new models but that's same with every faction and the fact marines have so many units makes hard to make them complete non-competive. Especially with GW's marine favouritism. They want timmy 12 yo's to be able to beat heroically evil xenos and chaos scums.

tneva82 791421 10908727 wrote:
Well marines are GW's pet boys. Rest are NPC races. So safest bet for competive army IS marines. Exact chapter might differ(8e iron hands, 9e white scars or salamanders) but that's changed by writing on army list. Might need to buy some new models but that's same with every faction and the fact marines have so many units makes hard to make them complete non-competive. Especially with GW's marine favouritism. They want timmy 12 yo's to be able to beat heroically evil xenos and chaos scums.

I am a bit older then 12, but are you claiming that with majority of players being marines, the better situation is for the minority of xeno player to easily beat marines, the way it was through most of 8th ed ? If any army deserves extra focus it is the one that is the most played and most popular.

As the starting goes. 9th didn't get its first 9th ed codex, and there is the whole corona thing slowing stuff down. A good idea would be to wait till seeing 2-3 codex and maybe the winter FAQ and CA to decide which army to start. Till then, if you have models, just play with those and learn the basic.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Custodes, yet.

- Cheap
- Quick to paint
- Competitive
- Even if new codizes turn the meta around, you won't have invested too much time and money into the faction.

In general I would advise to collect whats fun for you to own, assemble and paint. Rules come and go.

Karol wrote:
If any army deserves extra focus it is the one that is the most played and most popular.

What a load of nonsense.

No, if you are touting your game as having multiple factions as valid options, then it is the less popular and successful ones that need the extra attention.....

 harlokin wrote:

Karol wrote:
If any army deserves extra focus it is the one that is the most played and most popular.

What a load of nonsense.

No, if you are touting your game as having multiple factions as valid options, then it is the less popular and successful ones that need the attention.....

unless of course you have internal poltics issues ( like GW has) and want to make as much money as possible with as ittle investment as possible damned be the consequences (as gw did cue sob) .

Because most marines (even spieky variants) are just E file copy paste and added bling style.
See exhibit A Easiest discernable with what i dubbed here colloqually Meltasniper:

With exhibit B the Infiltrator aimer (second row right)


Not to mention the "Champion " and sargent.
the poses are a giveaway.

Therefore, my thesis: minimal investment by baseline coppying CAD file , add in the bling (in case of CSM) and you get 2 distinct units with working poses without much investment AND know how to position them on the sprue , which is the NR 1 issue for plastic models and earning margines.

I think you actually need to do a mix of both.

Space Marines are currently the best selling faction with (supposedly) the biggest fanbase or at least the fanbase most willing to buy stuff.

In your own interest, you should put your focus on what makes you money. So having a regular Space Marine release seems understandable.

On the other side you need some less popular factions to keep your product interesting. If it would just be Marine on Marine in the fluff and on the table, people would lose interest eventually. The game and the setting would not be the same.

Those factions don't have as big of a fanbase (for whatever reason and maybe it would be bigger with more support), but they are vital for the right experience.

BrianDavion wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
If you want to start playing competitively, then you better go for Space Marines, in particular Primaris units.
Go for (twice) the Indomitus box, it contains some fast and deadly units.

This is horriable advice. between FAqs and the fact that we'll presumably get a new codex cycle with this edition, the meta changes to fast to buy an entire new army just to "chase the meta dragon" I mean for all we know by time you assmble and paint an army of marines, Codex Orkz 9th edition could come out and that's the new meta (just using Orks as a random example here guys, although god knows they're due a bit of time in the sun) if you like painting dark eldar, then I'd reccomend painting dark eldar dude.

My advice is just to build a Marine army rather slowly.
Two Indomitus boxes will provide a good starting point.

a_typical_hero wrote:
I think you actually need to do a mix of both.

Space Marines are currently the best selling faction with (supposedly) the biggest fanbase or at least the fanbase most willing to buy stuff.

In your own interest, you should put your focus on what makes you money. So having a regular Space Marine release seems understandable.

On the other side you need some less popular factions to keep your product interesting. If it would just be Marine on Marine in the fluff and on the table, people would lose interest eventually. The game and the setting would not be the same.

Those factions don't have as big of a fanbase (for whatever reason and maybe it would be bigger with more support), but they are vital for the right experience.

And here is the core point, the crux of the issue, GW doesn't want to identify these issues half the time.Because doing so costs money to fix often (or actual competent ruleswriters and an editor which GW to this day seems not to have hired because jesus when even i find writing mistakes as someone unfamiliar with the language and having slight dyslexia.)

Take f.e. Eldar:
Why are new players not really buying, because let's be honest, even though alot of their aspects and models are now pure classics ( and still decent looking) they still are in severe need of an update. ALSO FINECRAP

Imperial guard:
The cadians look dated, no two ways around it, mostly the faces. The catachans look even more dated.
Also the vast ammount of models you tend to need , is a cost factor, there are 3rd parties out there, that are cheaper / model and look better now.

Orkz:
good looking, but also a slew of models are rather ridicoulus pricesd, cue the worst pts / money rate in the game, only beaten by FW Half kits for R&H...
Also somewhat lackluster rules support.




All of these issues cost either Time or money.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

unless of course you have internal poltics issues ( like GW has) and want to make as much money as possible with as ittle investment as possible damned be the consequences (as gw did cue sob) .

Because most marines (even spieky variants) are just E file copy paste and added bling style.
See exhibit A Easiest discernable with what i dubbed here colloqually Meltasniper:

With exhibit B the Infiltrator aimer (second row right)


Not to mention the "Champion " and sargent.
the poses are a giveaway.

Therefore, my thesis: minimal investment by baseline coppying CAD file , add in the bling (in case of CSM) and you get 2 distinct units with working poses without much investment AND know how to position them on the sprue , which is the NR 1 issue for plastic models and earning margines.

I've no comment on the internal politics thing, as I've no basis of knowledge to comment on that whatsoever, but I think your analysis is way off on those model comparisons. Like I actually agree with you that existing drawings are used as a basis for new sculpts, and I think that's entirely sensible to maintain cohesion, but the models you pointed out have way more differences than they do in common. Honestly, the resemblances you pointed out go pretty much no further than the general pose, and there's a limit to how many ways you can ultimately articulate a human form.

 Ginjitzu wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Spoiler:

unless of course you have internal poltics issues ( like GW has) and want to make as much money as possible with as ittle investment as possible damned be the consequences (as gw did cue sob) .

Because most marines (even spieky variants) are just E file copy paste and added bling style.
See exhibit A Easiest discernable with what i dubbed here colloqually Meltasniper:

With exhibit B the Infiltrator aimer (second row right)


Not to mention the "Champion " and sargent.
the poses are a giveaway.

Therefore, my thesis: minimal investment by baseline coppying CAD file , add in the bling (in case of CSM) and you get 2 distinct units with working poses without much investment AND know how to position them on the sprue , which is the NR 1 issue for plastic models and earning margines.

I've no comment on the internal politics thing, as I've no basis of knowledge to comment on that whatsoever, but I think your analysis is way off on those model comparisons. Like I actually agree with you that existing drawings are used as a basis for new sculpts, and I think that's entirely sensible to maintain cohesion, but the models you pointed out have way more differences than they do in common. Honestly, the resemblances you pointed out go pretty much no further than the general pose, and there's a limit to how many ways you can ultimately articulate a human form.

The Pose and by extenstion the baseline for a marine including armor are easily adaptable though and the Main reason for the copy pasting is Space allocation for parts on the sprue.
Marines are at the forefront of digitalisation by virtue of guaranteed sales.
Also anatomy has never stopped gw making a Model cue terminators.

killer4571 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

killer4571 wrote:
Hi I’m a returning player from 7th Ed and have been playing since 3rd on and off . I played Tau originally and moved to DE in 7th with a venom / corpse thief claw list.

I want to get back in to playing and start playing competitively. Mostly just want games to be close.

I will be starting fresh and after painting some stuff from my pile of shame I still like painting DE and still don’t like painting masses of flat panelling. Would if a fast kabal/wych cult list would work. But I don’t know what I want to play I know I want speed . Any suggestions or pointers for 9th?

Drukhari aren't currently competitive, and the lists that are currently doing ok are Coven based.

Negativity out of the way, we are only just into 9th and things may change, furthermore you can certainly have fun with Drukahri and not be embarrassed.

If you don't like painting "masses of flat panelling" I would recommend a paint scheme that is based around a primer spray colour. That way you can prime the vehicle, and then highlight the edges in a bright, contrasting colour, and it's almost done.

Yeah the non competitive part is putting me off a little but I’ve never like the super competitive army’s (read as marines and aldari) because if there super clean flat looks. I might just have to say screw it and make a non meta list to drown my enemy’s in splinter fire with.

I mean you say you've got a corpsethief claw...that's...that's whats it right now. That's the drukhari thang is loads of talos, so I feel like you've got a pretty good list if you've got talos.

Karol's not wrong. We look at factions that are under supported and say "well they deserve an update they've not had one in ages"

But Karol I think is arguing a corperate prespective, Corperations typically reward product lines with high dividends with increased support and focus, it makes economic sense, if sales spike by 10% when a faction gets a codex, the top selling faction makes the most money with a codex release. etc. at the same time yeah support for "lesser" factions is important. generally I'm of the opinion GW does the amount of marine releases they do to appease shareholders so that they can ALSO do things like a necron revision and SOBs.

Karol is wrong

From a corporate perspective there is a balance that should be struck between what maximises profits today, and what guarantees the health of the game in the longer term.

text removed.
Reds8n

OK, sure, but a corpsethief claw list was like ALL talos, I'd say at least 6, if my dude has a Corpsethief Claw list he legitimately does not NEED to go buy a list to play at tournaments, he's got one, he's set.

Yeah I’ve got 6 talos , 5 venoms , ravager (3x d Lance) I’d need to replace my trueborn and possibly my wyches and can’t temper the name but the non bomber plane. My old list was 1500pts . Will probably end up repainting the lot as it was a rush job

Taloi are probably the strongest unit in the Drukhari codex, so you're golden there.

killer4571 wrote:
Yeah I’ve got 6 talos , 5 venoms , ravager (3x d Lance) I’d need to replace my trueborn and possibly my wyches and can’t temper the name but the non bomber plane. My old list was 1500pts . Will probably end up repainting the lot as it was a rush job

Take what you have.

Add wracks.

Bazinga, you've got yourself a top tier tournament drukhari list right there baby. no need for any other army. Build the wracks with Ossefactor+Hexrifle (I'm assuming you've got some HQs and such too that you just didnt mentioned but in case you don't you do need a haemonculus, archon or succubus for each detachment)

Most tournament lists these days have been rolling with either 1x small Black Heart kabal patrol (Archon+1 Kab squad in Venom), 2x Master of Mutagens+Dark Technomancers Coven Patrols, or 1x BH Kabal patrol, 1x Master of Mutagens+Dark Tech, 1x Wych Cult patrol. 3x patrols gives Drukhari maximum command points so that's the go-to.

As another idea, Harlequins are a pretty small, elite army that are in a decent place at the start of 9th. Tabletop Tactics just put put out a great video of Tau vs. Harlies if you want an overview.

Seem to be some sweeping changes in the works at the moment - depending on time/budget, might be best to run DE and see how things look in six months.

Archebius wrote:
As another idea, Harlequins are a pretty small, elite army that are in a decent place at the start of 9th. Tabletop Tactics just put put out a great video of Tau vs. Harlies if you want an overview.

Seem to be some sweeping changes in the works at the moment - depending on time/budget, might be best to run DE and see how things look in six months.

Ok gonna paint some quins as I’ve got a few see if I can get a scheme I like looked up a few games and they seem up my ally . One question though is the rule of three still a thing as I had an idea of basing the theme on a deck of cards but that is 4 suits so if the rule of three is still a thing I may not do this.

killer4571 wrote:

Archebius wrote:
As another idea, Harlequins are a pretty small, elite army that are in a decent place at the start of 9th. Tabletop Tactics just put put out a great video of Tau vs. Harlies if you want an overview.

Seem to be some sweeping changes in the works at the moment - depending on time/budget, might be best to run DE and see how things look in six months.

Ok gonna paint some quins as I’ve got a few see if I can get a scheme I like looked up a few games and they seem up my ally . One question though is the rule of three still a thing as I had an idea of basing the theme on a deck of cards but that is 4 suits so if the rule of three is still a thing I may not do this.

It is but doesn't apply to Troops, which Troupes are.

That’s a shame . Oh well back to the drawing board on that one then .

killer4571 wrote:
That’s a shame . Oh well back to the drawing board on that one then .

What I'm saying though is that you can base the theme on four suits, just have four troupes. You don't need 4x of any other unit really...

the_scotsman wrote:

killer4571 wrote:
That’s a shame . Oh well back to the drawing board on that one then .

What I'm saying though is that you can base the theme on four suits, just have four troupes. You don't need 4x of any other unit really...

that’s true I could do something like that think I’d need to work out a rough list and balance it out from there.