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What can and can not flash gits do in an open topped vehicle? Can they shoot again? Or re-roll? Or use syratagems on them?

 Niiai wrote:
What can and can not flash gits do in an open topped vehicle? Can they shoot again? Or re-roll? Or use syratagems on them?

The Open Topped rules is a mess. You have two mutually exclusive scenarios and both scenarios result in bad stuff happening.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791436.page

I know for a fact you cannot use stratagems on them, but the rest? Who knows.

The way most players play open topped is that auras don't effect them stratagems cant target them. Rules on the model such as admech canticles function as do rules on guns such as plasma

Nobody knows, because the rule is completely broken and nonsensical. You definitely can't use stratagems on them, aside from that, <makes shrugging noises>?

I think it's fair to say there are two types of issue with open-topped at the moment, and they both centre around the transport wording, mentioning that "abilities" do not affect the embarked unit.

1) Issues where it's not clear whether the effect in question is considered an ability, so RAW is unclear, and
2) Issues where the rules in question are definitively listed as "abilities", so RAW is clear - but very silly, and at odds with common sense/players' HIWPI.

I'd say Flash Gitz' ability to fire again falls squarely in the latter, as "Gun Crazy Showoffs" is on the Abilities part of their datasheet. Re-rolls might well fall under 1) instead, depending on their source.
Stratagems though, are abundantly clear as per the transport rules - they're listed as a specific case stating you can't do it, and nothing in any open-topped wording I've seen gets around that.

Q: Does the Instinctive Behaviour ability apply to Tyranids units
whilst they are embarked within a Fortification?
A: Yes – that means that you must subtract 1 from hit rolls made
for that unit when shooting at any target other than the nearest
visible enemy unit.

GW again contradicting RAW. Abilities do affect embarked units.

Yeah, of course. I figured we'd start seeing "exceptions" popping up in FAQs. Of course, this doesn't now mean that all abilities magically start applying again.

 p5freak wrote:

Q: Does the Instinctive Behaviour ability apply to Tyranids units
whilst they are embarked within a Fortification?
A: Yes – that means that you must subtract 1 from hit rolls made
for that unit when shooting at any target other than the nearest
visible enemy unit.

GW again contradicting RAW. Abilities do affect embarked units.

Only applies to Instinctive Behaviour and NOTHING else.

A RAW answer isn't required here BCB because in this instance as you've already noted the RAW doesn't work

They most likely intended for units to be affected by their own and their weapon's abilities, just like they did in 8th. The FAQ supports this interpretation.

 Niiai wrote:
What can and can not flash gits do in an open topped vehicle? Can they shoot again? Or re-roll? Or use syratagems on them?

Units in open top are effected by all of their normal abilities listed on their datasheets other than Auras, this includes all abilities, there are several faqs that support this. You can not use stratagems unless otherwise states and the normal rules apply too like if you moved and you are a heavy weapon so you are -1 to hit, etc..

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
What can and can not flash gits do in an open topped vehicle? Can they shoot again? Or re-roll? Or use syratagems on them?

Units in open top are effected by all of their normal abilities listed on their datasheets other than Auras, this includes all abilities, there are several faqs that support this. You can not use stratagems unless otherwise states and the normal rules apply too like if you moved and you are a heavy weapon so you are -1 to hit, etc..

RAW, embarked units normally cannot do anything, or be affected by anything, but the tyranid FAQ suggests that they are affected by abilities. The part with move a heavy weapon is not true. An embarked unit, or units, counts as having made the same move as the transporter. Which means they can still fire heavy weapons after they advanced, and embarked on a transport which remained stationary. They cant fire heavy weapons when the transport advanced.

 p5freak wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
What can and can not flash gits do in an open topped vehicle? Can they shoot again? Or re-roll? Or use syratagems on them?

Units in open top are effected by all of their normal abilities listed on their datasheets other than Auras, this includes all abilities, there are several faqs that support this. You can not use stratagems unless otherwise states and the normal rules apply too like if you moved and you are a heavy weapon so you are -1 to hit, etc..

RAW, embarked units normally cannot do anything, or be affected by anything, but the tyranid FAQ suggests that they are affected by abilities. The part with move a heavy weapon is not true. An embarked unit, or units, counts as having made the same move as the transporter. Which means they can still fire heavy weapons after they advanced, and embarked on a transport which remained stationary. They cant fire heavy weapons when the transport advanced.

Yes they NORMALLY CAN"T but Open top says otherwise.

So according to you Poison no longer works out of Venoms/Raiders and Splinter Racks also no longer work. Yeah thats a good way to read RAW. When you miss read the rule that badly maybe you should think about it more.

Open top lets them shoot, ergo they are now "specifically stated".

RAW actually says that and open topped doesn't fix the problem at all.
Pretty much everyone on this thread agrees that the current rules are broken and stupid, but that doesn't change what GW has written.

There is absolutely no reason to attack p5freak for summarizing the facts for you.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

So according to you Poison no longer works out of Venoms/Raiders and Splinter Racks also no longer work. Yeah thats a good way to read RAW. When you miss read the rule that badly maybe you should think about it more.

I am not misreading anything. RAW is clear. I know its a disaster, and GW doesnt care.

 Jidmah wrote:
RAW actually says that and open topped doesn't fix the problem at all.
Pretty much everyone on this thread agrees that the current rules are broken and stupid, but that doesn't change what GW has written.

There is absolutely no reason to attack p5freak for summarizing the facts for you.

No b.c to me it is clear. You have an exception to the rules that says otherwise and faqs to back it up.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
RAW actually says that and open topped doesn't fix the problem at all.
Pretty much everyone on this thread agrees that the current rules are broken and stupid, but that doesn't change what GW has written.

There is absolutely no reason to attack p5freak for summarizing the facts for you.

No b.c to me it is clear. You have an exception to the rules that says otherwise and faqs to back it up.

RAW, the tyranid FAQ only applies to tyranid units in fortifications.

RAW is quite clear on 'abilities' in particular not being able to affect embarked units, unless the ability states otherwise.
Note that 'Abilities' is the name given both on a unit's datasheet for its special rules, and the end of weapon profiles.

The Open-topped rules allow you to shoot, as they specifically pertain to embarked units, but they don't give you permission to override this blocker for other abilities.
You need to provide more than one Tyranid FAQ (that itself only applies to one specific case with fortifications) to claim there are "several" exceptions.

RAW drukhari dudes with poisoned weapons can fire while embarked but can't resolve their shots since weapons are S* and their description is under "abilties".

It's exactly that.

And flamer-type weapons fired by embarked units must roll to hit. As the "This weapon automatically hits" thing is a 'ability' of the weapon, and does not apply...

Clearly no-one is going to play it that way (well maybe one person might ), but that's the most strict interpretation of the rule.

The only good news is that both primarily affected armies (drukhari and orks) have rules which completely break when someone tries to enforce RAW

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
What can and can not flash gits do in an open topped vehicle? Can they shoot again? Or re-roll? Or use syratagems on them?

The Open Topped rules is a mess. You have two mutually exclusive scenarios and both scenarios result in bad stuff happening.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791436.page

I know for a fact you cannot use stratagems on them, but the rest? Who knows.

According to one of the playtesters that was asked on youtube, it's how you expect it to work.

IE: Stuff on their datasheet absolutely works, lucky re-rolls etc, it's just auras and strats that don't. Same as 8th.