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Dan Abnett may just be the single most gory 40k author when it comes to describing the effects of weapons on human flesh, but it leaves me confused. The way he writes about "Needle" weapons, it makes it sound like they are bolt pistols, people literally explode when hit by them. But the research I've read shows them as just las guns that fire toxic darts? https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Needler

Some Needler toxins do cause people to explode, same as the Shrieker Cannon.

Abnett's novels, especialy early ones, can be sometimes not very lore acurate.

There are a lot of spectacular effects caused by poisons or chemicals in 40k. With some artistic license, yeah, that's not surprising.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Dan Abnett may just be the single most gory 40k author when it comes to describing the effects of weapons on human flesh, but it leaves me confused. The way he writes about "Needle" weapons, it makes it sound like they are bolt pistols, people literally explode when hit by them. But the research I've read shows them as just las guns that fire toxic darts? https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Needler

theirs more than one weapon in (generic) sci-fi called a "needler", and i think he went with a different paradigm of them, specifically one where the needler guns shoot an insane number of very high velocity needles at the target, the effect being hit by dozens or even hundreds of needles on unarmoured human flesh in less than a second would be very much like an explosion.

its also quite likely that Dan Abnett either didnt check (or couldn't find a reference to) needlers in 40k when he wrote that specific passage, and just made up/borrowed a cool sci-fi weapon for it without knowing that something else existed with that name in 40k.

This is not just Abnett. The Assassins in the Sisters Omnibus use them, and it describes them as horrifically powerful. Hell, isn't Sly Marbo's pistol a Needle Pistol? Abnett really likes to play hell with the fluff. Even Guy Haley didn't do anything like this in Baneblade.

Well, we can’t rule it out.

Typically, a Needle weapon is for stealthy assassinations.

Invisible laser beam punches a hole in armour or clothing for the chemical needle to penetrate the flesh, delivering toxic nastiness.

But what is that toxic nastiness? Well.....that can be hyper tailored to a species (Rogue Trader identifies the highly imaginative Eldartoxin, Squattoxin, Rodentotoxin among others).

That doesn’t rule out a toxin which causes the body to rapidly and violently exsanguinate, or swell and rupture. Basically, it’s entirely up to the writer exactly what a given toxin is capable of. And there are no limits.

As beast-gts accurately said, Shuriken Shrieker rounds cause the target to violently explode, and used to create a secondary blast template attack should they kill something in game. There’s little reason the Imperium won’t have created something similar.

Actually, when a needler fires 7 or more needles at a target in a short amount of time it super-combusts. This super-combustion causes a devastating explosion and will kill Spartans 2s even with their shields fully charged. This is the type of needler that he is talking about, unless I'm getting the settings mixed up.

PS: This is a joke. I shouldn't have to even say it but I know some people cannot understand sarcasm when they see it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
This is not just Abnett. The Assassins in the Sisters Omnibus use them, and it describes them as horrifically powerful. Hell, isn't Sly Marbo's pistol a Needle Pistol? Abnett really likes to play hell with the fluff. Even Guy Haley didn't do anything like this in Baneblade.

That's why Abnett is awesome. He makes the universe seem big. He is also responsible for world-building much of the Imperium, and he writes about things that you do not hear or read about in a codex or see in some artwork. Hes great at adding diversity to a setting where anything without a model is sidelined thus leading to the opposite of diversity. Hes always adding to the setting (good things too) where as most authors just recycle or write only about what has already been hinted at or established in the fluff, kind of like Guy Haley and Baneblade. Guy is a good author who usually writes good books, but my god, Baneblade was extra boring right up until the "twist" at the end

123ply wrote:
Actually, when a needler fires 7 or more needles at a target in a short amount of time it super-combusts. This super-combustion causes a devastating explosion and will kill Spartans 2s even with their shields fully charged. This is the type of needler that he is talking about, unless I'm getting the settings mixed up.

PS: This is a joke. I shouldn't have to even say it but I know some people cannot understand sarcasm when they see it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
This is not just Abnett. The Assassins in the Sisters Omnibus use them, and it describes them as horrifically powerful. Hell, isn't Sly Marbo's pistol a Needle Pistol? Abnett really likes to play hell with the fluff. Even Guy Haley didn't do anything like this in Baneblade.

That's why Abnett is awesome. He makes the universe seem big. He is also responsible for world-building much of the Imperium, and he writes about things that you do not hear or read about in a codex or see in some artwork. Hes great at adding diversity to a setting where anything without a model is sidelined thus leading to the opposite of diversity. Hes always adding to the setting (good things too) where as most authors just recycle or write only about what has already been hinted at or established in the fluff, kind of like Guy Haley and Baneblade. Guy is a good author who usually writes good books, but my god, Baneblade was extra boring right up until the "twist" at the end

Now I have to re-read Baneblade, did I somehow miss the twist? I agree I was so bored I just wanted it to be over. I remember he becomes the commander of the baneblade after the then captain heroically commits suicide with his tank, against a weird boy in a gargant. Is that the twist?

I liked Baneblade. D:

I'm kind of a technophile though (I love the Bolo series) so reading about laser data transmission between the tanks to share fire control channels, etc was pretty awesome.

In 2ed needle pistols and rifles were 2 of the deadliest weapons around. A poison needle was delivered in the laser beam like a las rifle. For those units immune to poison it was like being hit by a las weapon. There was an option arm your SM scouts with needle rifles I think.

mrFickle wrote:
In 2ed needle pistols and rifles were 2 of the deadliest weapons around. A poison needle was delivered in the laser beam like a las rifle. For those units immune to poison it was like being hit by a las weapon. There was an option arm your SM scouts with needle rifles I think.

They could, but that's because, aside from the Vindicare, all Sniper weapons in 2nd were Needle Sniper Rifles. The laser actually fired before the needle as the laser was there to burn through clothes and light armor so that the needle landed in direct contact with flesh.

There's a few different kinds of needle weapons in the fluff.

There are those that fire crystalline shard needles (often toxin-loaded).
The original write-up of the needle-rifles used by SM scouts, for example (back in 2nd ed) said that it was a 2-stage weapon. The ammunition was a metallic needle, but there was also a high-powered laser pulse that followed it, and vaporised it on impact and this little energised metallic plasma is what did the damage. It could also use toxin rounds, though.

Random fact: 40k inherited a lot of its weapons and some of it's fluff from a game called Laserburn which was written by Citadel Miniatures boss-dude Bryan Ansell. Needlers therein were subtle but slow-acting - you didn't roll any dice when the weapon was fired, but instead made a note of who was shot at and the chance of hitting, you then rolled the dice to resolve the hit 3 turns later. I've always thought that was an awesome (if not overly efficient) mechanic.

These types of guns scare me. I'm not against them or anything, but I think there are better options that don't harm as much as these do.

Please do not commit acts of thread necromancy, locking now.