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Hello Dakka!

This topic is to discuss an idea I'm thinking about for some time (hope it's the right forum section...there isn't one for proposed Apocalypse rules right?).

I'm tinkering a little with the Apocalypse rules to make it more akin to my taste. Specifically, I love the game, but the Non-CCG approach to Assets really annoys me. However, I feel that the core of the game is definitively solid and there is a middle ground in-between the "wombo combo" Assets approach in the rulebook, and the sterile version you can play eliminating entirely the Asset (or using only the most generic one).

So.... basically I tried to find out if there is a more sensible ways to provide a similar game experience without imparing or randomizing the strategy too much. I've started creating a DB that includes and classify all the Apocalypse assets (you can find it here, and you can comment on it too). Doing so ('nuff said, there are 370 Assets in total in Apocalypse), I noticed that the vast majority of the Assets are extremely similar... there are cases where they are EXACTLY the same, but mostly we're talking about very small variations (that I think may have an impact on storytelling, but a negligible one on strategy).


After this overview, I think I come to an alternative version of the Asset part in Apocalypse that may work... more or less structure as follows.

0) All the different Armies will have access to a specific combination of Asset plus 1-2 special rules. Assets will be identical between factions, but not all factions will have access to the same Assets (ie: both Black Templar and Khorne will have access to the same melee-centric Assets, while Imperial Fist won't. Both Black Templar and Imperial Fist will share the same "Marines" asset). After some consolidation, I think the entirety of the deck for ANY race can be enclosed within: 10-12 general Asset (available to any army), 6-8 Faction Assets, 3-4 Subfaction Asset.
1) Asset will no longer be card, but a single page (A4 I suppose) reference sheet that collect the available Asset. The sheet will include the specific Asset available for the combination of Faction/subfaction. Any Asset will be described in a coherent fashion to avoid (as currently is) that Assets have negligible differences in approach in the game.
2) Any units/detachment will be limited to 1 Asset per turn. If you already used an Asset on a Unit, you can't use another Asset on a Detachment it belongs to.
3) Any Asset can be used once per game (in the Asset page there will be a space where mark when as Asset is depleted).
4) All the Asset-related cards will be transformed in regeneration for the depleted Asset. This also ensure that, in many cases, you can still pull off multiple similar tactics when they belong to your Faction (ie: almost any faction have a plethora or "change the order to Y + this bonus", that stacks with the general Asset in Apocalypse to change your order).

All in all, the idea is to remove the card from the game an the bespoken rules they imply, without removing the flavor entirely.


Now, that's the idea. My question specifically is... there is some consequences on the rule I've forgotten? Or any other specific situation I need to consider?


Right now I'm up the point where I almost consolidate all the 370 Assets into a 40-ish. Next step will be to sort them army by army, to ensure that all the unique Assets without a general application (ie: "Secret Agenda" of Dark Angels) are either be converted into special rules or sub-faction specific Strategems. This is also the reason why I need special rules: if for example the Asset "Bodyguard" will collect all the bodyguard-related Assets, I need another layer of rules to ensure that specific restriction stays in place (for example) in case of Orks are the Gretchin that works as bodyguard, whilst for Tau the same role is covered by the drone.

I can think of a few potential issues. Let's start with this one.

-Psychic powers. Right now when I build a deck for Apoc I build it with my army list in mind. If I have no psykers then no psyker cards enter my deck which makes room for other assets.

How many of each armies "stratagems" are going to be psychic powers? What happens when they don't have any psykers in their army? They just have less options? What about when some of those faction specific cards are faction specific psychic powers? Same question, is that player just hurting themselves for not bringing psykers? Tau will never know that issue. Necrons will know that same issue by not bringing C'tans.

Good point: I haven't arrived yet to the specificity of Psyker, but as a general rule I don't believe that armies should have a difference in the total number of strategies available...
So, as a general rule, I feel like those will be part of the general bundle in terms of Assets.
This means the will have more or less the same mechanics effect of other Asset, but will require a Psyker to be used (other armies may have the same Asset with a different triggeR).

By a quick check at the DB, I can tell you that all the Psyker Asset lock behind the Psyker Assets are already there for other armies.
"Da Jump" is a Teleport Homer that instead of a Terminator Unit requires an Ork Psyker.... other function as Bombardment etcetera etcetera etcetera.

As side note, I suspect "Abhor the Witch" is available to all armies without a Psyker (or, at least, to one subfaction).

This however, raise another possible issue, that I want to manage as smoothly as possible: Asset duplication. A big part of Apocalypse it the fact that the same (or a very similar) Asset is duplicated as a general Asset, one for the Faction, and sometimes even one for the Subfaction. I'd like to replicate the exact same structure: since you can use an Asset only once, having the same Asset listed both in your Faction and Subfaction will effectively allows to use it twice. Basically, I see Psyker as a natural addendum of this structure: they allows other interation of Asset outside the hierarchy of Universal -> Faction -> Subfaction

But the issue is not whether the action itself is duplicated but more that you inherently hinder yourself by not having psykers.

Let's go with the C'tans. I THINK 3 asset cards are C'tan powers but it might be all 6 from the base game. So 3-6 necron assets are C'tan powers currently.

C'tans are not a part of any subfaction. But they are unique to faction.

So with 10-12 general assets, 6-8 necron assets, and 3-4 subfaction, how many of the 6-8 necron assets are eaten up by C'tan powers? At which point how much are necrons hurting versus Tau by having less options because their Faction assets cannot be used?

THIS is the issue. In Apoc now, I just don't put them in my deck if I don't want/have them. My deck doesn't suffer.

In your proposed system things like Psychic powers and C'tan powers probably need to be their own side board of assets. Maybe something you an CHOOSE to bring instead of another asset.



Or, as I type this up my gears are turning, maybe you should just do that. Instead of building a big ol deck of assets and drawing a hand, just let players pick from tables a set number.

Have commanders allow you to use assets instead of drawing cards.


So lets say everyone builds an asset list of 8 General, 4 Faction, and 2 Subfaction assets. Lets even say you can add in 1 more asset for each detachment you have in your army (Any kind. It's your choice how you are building this).

You can issue 1 asset a turn to any detachment in your army. But you can ALSO issue an additional asset a turn to a detachment/unit within a detachment as long as it's commander is still alive.

Now you COULD build a list of 20 general assets and players will build their own list of 8+ that they bring to the fight. No card draws, no secret hands, but a customizable element that is like wargear for the army. And keeping your commanders alive keeps the options available to you.