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Hi!

I've been thinking for a while I'd like to get in to Warmachine/Hordes. There seems to be a lot of information out there in terms of where to "get started", but most articles/blogs seem to me to be skipping step 0.

Step 0 being, how do I build my first army?

The general advice I've seen is that most factions are similar, most can do most things, so to just pick whichever faction you like the look of. Great, I like the aesthetic of Cryx and Circle so I'm considering buying the battlegroup for both* factions.

My question is on what to do next. I am struggling to find any information on how to build an army. I know the rules are free, and I found the rulebooks, but nothing faction specific. How do I know the points costs of my units?

From there, there seems to be a wealth of information on teaching the game.

*I am in Canada, and struggling to find anywhere that sells Privateer Press. The places that do are always out of stock on only the Circle Battlegroup. What's up with that?

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Here's where you can get all the cards for model rules:

http://cards.privateerpress.com/

Here's an excellent online army builder:

https://conflictchamber.com/

As far as building an army, in MK3, there's themes within each faction that are generally the best way to build an army and play. I'd recommend sticking to them, but start small. Go through the models on the site, find something that really catches your eye and someone can probably help you find the theme that it works best in.

Alternatively, Brawlmachine is a new fan format that people seem to be really enjoying that's focused on small games.

https://www.loswarmachine.com/brawlmachine

shelman

Since you already chose a faction half your work is done.

The army building tools are free and linked in the previous post.

All warmachine armies are centered around the caster much like the king in a chess game. each caster has abilities that help different types of units or combat styles. some help the jacks(battlegroup) and others infantry(warriors) and sometimes all models in the army (faction models)

I play khador and i have 2 casters one is very much a shooting/support caster protecting those near him (in his 14" range command bubble -focus 7" doubled is his control range) from being knocked down, boosting their shooting attacks and giving the infantry tough(a final save against loosing their last wound).

The other caster i have is more assault oriented providing movement boosts as well as area concealment to protect units as they advance.

Themed lists are not necessary to play. the more competitive minded players may want them to get "free" units, however i play the model i enjoy and i do just fine without them in a casual gaming group. i would also suggest that the ideal game size for MKIII, the current edition is 50 points. going much above that bogs the game down as it is a skirmish system with some rather complex rules.

One last thing-here are the core rules for free download.

https://privateerpress.com/the-rules-are-free

Have you been to Warmachine University? They have a lot of info on everything, including starting an army.

https://warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Cryx#Other_good_early_purchases

https://warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Circle_Orboros#Other_worthwhile_early_purchases

After choosing your faction, choosing a Theme to go for is a good next step. It's a bit like choosing the faction itself!

Let us know which Theme you find interesting, then we'll be able to help you with key models for this Theme.

Also, Brawlmachine is excellent. I strongly advise playing it as your go-to format and trying out other options only when you feel comfortable.

I will second pretty much what everyone else above has said.

Go to Warmachine University (as noted by Cyel) and they will also give you a guide on what each faction has for Themes, what goes in to them, and what generally works best in them.

Plan on building to at least one of these Themes, but have a second Theme to build to give you variety and flexibility in your play.

The Battlebox starters come as a 0 point set. Each Warcaster and Warlock come with Warjack or Warbeast points which provide a discount on the bots or beasts they directly control. Warwitch Agathia comes with the Cryx box and provides 29 Warjack points. The Warjacks that come in her box add up to 29 points total. With Agathia's points reducing that number, it becomes zero.

Some people decry the Battleboxes as starters since it doesn't include everything available in the game. I disagree on that a bit as the interactions between the Warcaster and Warjack or Warlock and Warbeasts are unique to this game

Your first target point after the Battlebox Box should be 25 points. This will be 25 points in addition to the Warjack or Warbeast points the Warcaster or Warlock provides, and allow for a small unit or two along with a solo or two. 25 points is also the target size of Brawlmachine that Lunarsol brought up. Brawlmachine does limit the game a little by not allowing certain units to be played. They are either way to big for the points to be handling or power is best countered by larger armies.

After that, the biggest size that is regularly played is Steamroller which is the competitive game run at 75 points. This can place a lot of bases on the table, which provides for a lot of interactions to work with, and the where the Battlebox 'Casters tend to not perform as well.

There are also two more ways to build up. First is the Journeyman League which provides a growth league format for groups to bring new people in to the game and help familiarize them with objectives used in Steamroller and Brawlmachine. It's last formatting was in 2018, and we've seen some changes to Themes since then, but otherwise it is decent.

The second is the Oblivion set which adds a narrative campaign used as a growth league as well. It should also include a more current rulebook, but nothing that the errata doesn't cover. It is a bit harder to find as it is over a year old, and better to have a group of friends to enjoy it with.

Thanks for the advice everyone!

I knew about the cards being available online, but I did not realise that was the extent of the faction specific information. I assumed (coming from a Warhammer/40k background) that there would be faction specific books/pdfs with all the information in one place. Good to know.

Very interesting that all the battlegroup sets are "zero point" armys. Easy place to start and get in to the game with a friend. Are the battlegroups all relatively evenly balanced even at the zero point level?

Each warcaster/warlock has a set number of jack/warbeast points that give them that many points to spend on buying jack/warbeasts, the casters themselves cost nothing. so a battlefoce is the warcaster plus the free jacks they get for their points.



You can always buy more jacks or more expensive jacks than the warcasters points allow but they end up costing real army points that count towards the overall army total.
It is a design mechanic to force people to use jacks and warbeasts instead of just infantry.

shelman wrote:

Very interesting that all the battlegroup sets are "zero point" armys. Easy place to start and get in to the game with a friend. Are the battlegroups all relatively evenly balanced even at the zero point level?

For the most part. Some of the casters are a lot better than others in "the real game" but at the battlebox level some of the weaker Battlebox casters like the Cryx one have the advantage of being able to kill the enemy caster a lot easier when there's not an army between them and their target.

In general, battlebox games get weird if you try to play them for too long. They're fantastic for learning the game, but once you've got the rules down you need a scenario or something similar to force engagement.

 LunarSol wrote:
For the most part. Some of the casters are a lot better than others in "the real game" but at the battlebox level some of the weaker Battlebox casters like the Cryx one have the advantage of being able to kill the enemy caster a lot easier when there's not an army between them and their target.

As an odd side note, the Cryx box is unusual in that the Warcaster has an ability that you will rarely get to take full advantage of in Battlebox games. Some models have the ability to grab the souls of living models dying and use them for more power. Unless you're facing a Hordes box (who use living 'Beasts), you'll never get to use this until you start getting in to bigger games. It can even be countered by certain builds as well in larger games (i.e. enemy doesn't have any models with a soul besides the Warcaster), but usually not as much. This ability ability to get a power boost from souls is actually quite common among Cryx 'Casters, too. Some leaders of other factions do have access to it, but they tend to be relatively rare.

Make sure people in your area actually still play. The game is dead in a lot of places.

As LunarSol is saying, battlebox games are mostly for learning the game. In my opinion the lowest points value for getting the actual feel of what WM&H is about (different types of models interacting, having contingencies/sacrificial stuff, scenarios) is at 25pts. That's why I'm advocating Brawlmachine

Learn how to play with battleboxes and get to BM level as quickly as possible to get the most out of the game. It's a matter of adding a big unit or two small ones and a couple of solos but it improves the experience no end.

You can actually go there a bit quicker if you can find a 2-player starter box, which consists Cryx and Cygnar battlebox+ one unit each. It would be a good solution if another player from your group wants to play Cygnar. A Cryx Brawlmachine army based on these models could look like that (starter box contents in bold).


Cryx
[Theme] Dark Host

[Agathia 1] Bane Witch Agathia [+29]
- Deathripper [6]
- Reaper [13]
- Slayer [10]
Bane Lord Tartarus [0(6)]
Machine Wraith [2]
Necrotech [2]
Bane Warriors (max) [16]
- Bane Warrior Officer & Standard [5]


Of course if you don't like Banes you can just buy the battlegroup and build from there.

shelman wrote:
Are the battlegroups all relatively evenly balanced even at the zero point level?

Battlegroups from the battlebox starter sets are relatively evenly balanced.
If either player branches out into other warcasters and other warjacks, though, things can quickly become unbalanced. Some casters are nuts at zero point games.

Instead when you're ready to branch out from 0 point games, you should try out the Brawlmachine game format (25 points, some restrictions on what you can put in your army). Someone's already linked to it.

LOS also has a series of beginners articles, more about learning how to 'speak' the game and 'read' the strength of options and judge when to boost dice and so on >> https://www.loswarmachine.com/beginners-guides

 Kommisar wrote:
Make sure people in your area actually still play. The game is dead in a lot of places.

This is what I would recommend also, there are some really good games out there but if they are dead in your area it may be an uphill battle to find players.
Plus the pandemic isn't helping anything.