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CoD has inspired me to finish building my IG out to a full 1850 pts from the 1000 or painted which I can field today. I currently have 1 Chimera, 1 Russ and 65 or more warm bodies painted to a table-top standard, and another Chimera, a Sentinel, and 2 more boxes of IG waiting to be assembled. I also have a Hellhound on order and expect it in soon.

What I'm working on right now is a Demolisher. I have the tracks and hull assembled and am ready to add the hull/sponson armament.

Is there a consensus on the best config for CoD?

Does the close-quarters and packed buildings of CoD make the plasma sponsons worth buying?

Any reason to take the lascannon over a hull-mounted heavy bolter?

Should I just leave the sponsons off and go for the cheapest build?

My local metagame is NOT composed of optimzed tournament armies. We are a bunch of geeks out in the sticks over 150 miles from the nearest GW store.  We tend to build armies that look cool first and adjust from there after repeated failure. My likely opponents are several varieties of MEq, Tau, IG and DE.

Thanks

Three heavy bolters, still the best config for COD. You will be doing a lot of moving and shooting, with the increased cover saves it makes the plasma, lascannon config even less optimal.

Seconded

Ditto. 3 xHB allows you to deal with those "unscrupulous" players who actually space all their guys 2" apart to deal with ordnance. Haven't they ever heard of the benefits of Close order drill?

Also when firing the cannon at upper stories and the shot scatters 6" I assume it scatters off into mid air, so the 9 HB shots will miss less in such an ocaission.

I'm trying heavy flamer sponsons and hull HB, will let you know how it gets on in CoD...

wouldn't the lascannon and plasma sponsons still be viable?

they're still going to be alot of termies running around those ruined cities...

Those termis will still get cover saves. So you may as well just go for sheer volume of fire.

I disagree. For two reasons. One: You won't be moving that much and even if you do you'll be wanting to siege shell the sh*t out of someone. The table size is only 4' x4' andyou are deploying in a table quarter. One move should put you in range of most things that you want to blow up. Second: Terminators laugh at heavybolters, but the LC and Plasmacannons still work great since it is extremely hard to space your models exactly 2" apart in ruins. So at the end of the day I'd rather have the termies taking a 4+ save many times over, rather than their 2+ save over and over and over again.... OR you could just siege shell the building and kick their *donkey*that way....hehe... Capt K (purveyor of siege shells....)

I forgot to add that you should magnitize your sponsons, etc. So if you want to change the load outs you can. Capt k

The next question is, Why should I waste my time shooting at termies with two bs3 plasma cannons, and a bs3 lascannon, when I got mister demolisher cannon?

@Foil: Exactly. However with siege shells your demolisher is going to be public enemy #1 and will be targeted with impunity. So if the turret blows, it still is effective against termies. Bottomline is that terminators are harsh in CoD and having Mr. Fatty Demolisher pimped to take them on makes the opponent's sphincter pucker when he sees it. Capt K

I heartily disagree with Capt K.

Paying that many extra points for an option you're likely only going to use if you suffer a very particular damage result is just poor army construction.


In non-CoD games the Plasma Cannons/Lascannon is a decent choice because it provides the Demolisher with some much needed range.

In CoD that range isn't nearly as important, so the x3 HB configuration is clearly the way to go.

If you're concerned about Terminators, take some Rough Riders.

Sorry Yak, gotta disagree. Rough Riders vs termies in CoD, just won't work as well as you think. Play a few games of CoD with Termies in a building and just try to remove them from a building. It isn't as easy as you make it. Especially since RR can't take frags, so the termies can just take swings with their fists turned off. So a small unit of RR will lose vs. a unit of termies in a building. While RR are a great counter assault unit, they make a sh*tty direct assault unit. Especially in CoD. As for poor army selection...it is all based on what you want the demolisher to do. I really think that having the plasma and LC is still helpful...especially if you are using the Seige Shell Strategem and then lose the turret. The investment that you made in the demolisher then isn't wasted as it can still cause damage to termies, even though your turret is gone and now your strategem is gone. Capt K

Paying points for weapons you will not use in the majority of your games = poor efficiency = poor army design.


You do make a good point about Rough Riders and charging into terrain. You will need full sized RR squads to ensure obliteration against a 5 man Termie squad in cover.

Even so, in a CoD guard army you should have some plasma carrying units that can deal with Terminators if you are unlucky enough to lose your Demolisher turret.

Yak: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the demolisher in CoD. You view it as a waste of points for the LC/Plasma load out, but I view it as insurance that your tank will still be effective against hard targets if the turret goes (while losing a good strategem to boot). With heavy bolters, you do get to move and shoot with 9 shots, but the chances of causing a casualty to a termie squad is slim (even worse if they are holed up in a medicae facility.) Yeah if you wanted to beat down a unit of termies you probably would have to have 10. The problem is that getting there without taking damage is unlikely. Not only that but if the opponent is using 6 man squads instead of 5. They may not even take them out. I also agree with having plasmaguns...however, they are really only effective in your veteran squads were the numbers you can take and the increase BS works in their favor. Check out my 1500pt CoD list in the Army List section and see what you think of my CoD lG list. It's always fun talking IG shop with ya. Capt K

I think you are missing his point. He is saying that the cost of the insurance is not worth the chance of it paying out.

Those points could be better spent on something that will do something every game, than something that may do something in a few games.

I understand Yaks point, but the amount of points we're talking about really isn't that much. So from an insurance point of view, it's worth taking since it would come up more than you think. Especially if your opponent sees that you do indeed have siege shells. That is why I disagree. Have you played against Demolishers (or vindicators) in CoD? Having Seige shells makes them extremely dangerous, so it is going to get lots of shots on it. Since VP's don't matter in the majority of the games, but taking and holding objectives does, letting the demolisher have the LC/PC makes it still dangerous to tougher units holed up in cover. On the flip side Terminators are a pain in the a$$ in CoD. In cover they are extremely hard to remove since they are taking a 4+ (in a medicae facility they are tough as nails). But since the Demolisher has adequate range it can deal damage well to squads like that. Even better if it brings the building down on their heads. As for rough riders vs. termies in cover, I haven't run the math, but I still think the RR come up on the short end of that stick...if the termies turn off their fists and strike blows first, there won't be enough RR left to take down the squad. RR have always sucked as a direct assault unit. They have no frags. So in CoD they have trouble. The only way I see them being successful against termies, is if you catch them in the open or charge with one other unit, hope to draw the combat into the next turn where the RR can charge into cover and the Termies can't benefit from it anymore...which gets back to my whole discussion about the importance of combined arms in CoD. Capt K

Well, if you are going for mobile firepower in a COD game you cant go past exterminators. I use 2 each with a pintle stubber, so both working together generate 28 shots per turn, and my GK opponent last game was rather annoyed at losing 13 marines in my first turn... mostly to the exterminators.

Isn't it 40-50 odd points? On the chance that your opponent makes a 1/6 roll on the damage chart?
I understand that the Demolisher will be a target, no one is disputing that. This makes it even less likely that the 40-50 odd points will pay out, as it will be more likely that the Demolisher is outright destroyed.

You are paying for an insurance option (out the nose I may add. 40-50 points is not cheap) that is actually less likely to pay off. Even more less likely to pay off under concentrated fire.

Also consider the fact that if you bear it out with those extra weapons, the opponent is going to have even more reason to target it, and won't leave it with weapons intact, as opposed to the 3 HB one that may get let off for more pressing targets.

For 10 points, I'd take heavy flamers in a COD. The ranges will generally be short, and you're far more likely (in a COD-game) to come into a situation where you'd rather lay down 2 heavy flamer templates than 1 demolisher template. I gotta go thumbs-down on any other sponson option.

I just don't like the PlasmaC weapon in v4 period.  That having been said, it's a hard choice.  Plas Demolishers are expensive, but just taking the turret off will still leave it capable of threatening ugly 2+ save models and CoD does make templates of all kinds better.  However, I think most people will manage to make sure that you only ever hit 1 termi.  HBs is equally effective vs. everything and cheap.  Flamers could be strong, but you have to get inside melta range to really use them and getting a vehicle that close to one of CoD's premier vehicle killering weapons worries me. 

I won't comment on the MM demolisher.

Personally, I'd try HBs first and spend the remainder on plasmaguns/meltaguns. 

The main thing is, the chances of having your Demolisher Cannon blown off are small enough that it isn't worth spending a large amount of points on extra weapons.
3 HBs get away with it because it is cheap and provides a large amount of firepower, on the move. Another downside of Plasma Cannons + Lascannon is that none are defensive weapons, so you still can't shoot on the move.

Really, I think you would be hard pressed to find a worse option than Plasma Cannons & a Lascannon.

Except when they deep strike, of course...



In a cities of death game, I agree.

Ah, nothing like 1 hit and 4 partials each with a pair of AP2 weapons...

Of couse, if your opponent is silly enough to land within line of sight of your demolisher, an ordnance S10 AP2 can do a number as well. Probably better than you 2 and 8 partials.

Reallly, if your opponent is silly enough to deep strike within 30" of your demolisher without having a good chance of neutralizing it, than that's a gimme.

But what if they deep strike within 42"?

And conspicuously in LOS of your Demolisher which has to sit still to shoot the PCs & LasCannons?
Sure, you can move and take the one Plasma shot, but that is a 50% chance to hit, for a total of 1 and 4 partials.

Congratulations. Your opponent who was foolish enough to deep strike his termies greater than 30" away (farther than any of their effective weapons) and in LOS, or 6" away from LOS has a 50% chance of losing a couple of termies.

Do you really need the help to beat someone like that?

Lascannon/Plasma combination.

You're going to use the Demolisher out of CoD eventually, and when you do you're going to want those bigger guns.

I mean, you could buy 2 Demolishers and make one with Las/Plas and one with Tri-HBs, one for normal 40K and one for CoD, but if you're only getting one, get the one that'll be useful in both versions of the rules rather than one that is really effective in one and a waste in another.

BYE

Wow. I think I might actually have to disagree with you.

Outside of COD, mobility is still pretty important, 3 HBs allow you to shoot on the move, which means you don't have to wait for the enemy to get within 24" of it to use the big gun (about the best I could argue for is changing one to a Lascannon because you could still shoot the bolters, it does decently against MEQ and 2+ saves and can affect tanks in a pinch)
Furthermore, high ROF weapons make sure you can actually effect what you are aiming at. On average you will only hit with one of the Plasma Cannon sponsons, which will get maximum utility hitting deep striking termies (which again, are a rare thing to be able to target) for 1 hit and 4 partials, which, accounting for their 5+ invulnerable means only 2 casualties. Knock off two PF and Stormbolter carrying bullet wounds.

The main problem with this is that is a best case scenario for using them. More often you will only be able to kill one termie. This is not a cheap upgrade either.

I'd like to hear the reason you reccomend that extremely overpriced, immobile version of the Demolisher. Particularly with all the new 4th edition rules.

A couple people seem to have mentioned the HM Lascannon/HB Sponson combo. Is that any good? It seems like it would make for a good horde-killer with the Demo Cannon and the two HBs, and would be able to affect tanks on the move as well with its HM Lascannon, though it couldn't be considered a reliable anti-tank weapon.

Just curious.
CK