Dukeofstuff wrote:
So, I think your wyvern is sort of an extra wrinkle you don't quite need -- and your tank commander .. hmm.

OK. Its catachan infantry / melee blob, right? Every guy gets S4 x 2 attacks in melee.
You could up that 50 percent with a ministerium priest, and it would boost the bullygryns as well, which are a not inconsequential part of this army..

My suggestion is the wyvern, though nice, is really only throwing 4d6 shots (with reroll wounnds) or about 12 HITS against a troop of horde.
Your elites are broken out into 6 units, its full -- but oyu COULD pack the 8 bullygrn into a midsized single unit instead, making it easier to affect with a single buffing spell.
Lets say you did that, droping 1 bullyboy and added in the ministerium's priest to give everythign in your army a +1A statline near him -- meaning instead of 26 swings, your newly minted bullygrn group swings 29 times.
But, pointedly, everyone else swings 30, not 20, in melee, and that pack of lunatic conscripts is up to I don't even do that much math.

So ok. That's a small change. Now a big one.

Lets say you decided you don't in fact need an expensive wyvern to kill hordes, because, well, conscripes + troops in gaurd = antihorde at the front. You have 135 points to play with.
Your goal is to get a single purchase .. an helverin warglaive, allowing your little pack of knights to have a front/melee shock unit that is also a bit of a distraction carnifax for your side, AND, well, allows the 3 knights to activate their regiment bonus.

So you can get the effects of being my favorite annoyance faction in knights, taranis.
When that warglaive goes down from attacks, you smile, spend the tarnis strat's CP into it, and it stands back up, ready to be (next round) given a 1 cp boost to operate at full function, and charges in somewhere (maybe conscripts provide cover for its charge) after shooting all its weapons to also make all its melee attacks.

sure, it situational, but the same technique can stand up a blown up backling helverin, and the 3 (warg, armig, armig) all are now granted a 6+++ feel no pain for no further effort. If you are totally fixated on another house's traits, this at least (as I understand the knights' detachments) will allow you to unlock any house's house trait bonus. You might take the custom ignore AP-1 tradition, much to the frustration of marine players trying to kill you with their AP-1 bolter phase weaponry. Its up to you, but if (I may be wrong) I don't think you get the trait until you either have a large knight in the detachment and/ or 3 separate small ones.

While a warglaive isn't exactly a wyvern, you can do stuff to bring dwon hordes OR marines with it, its got some decent little shooty before its decent little melee, and the wyvern is sort of stuck firing its lackluster shooting into hordes to make back points. Without AP, its pretty useless aginst marines in cover.

So I don't remember offhand the exact difference in price but its somethign I would personally give up an entire bullygrin from those seven to see happen -- a fast, moderatley powerful melee unit that also shoots a bit, has native shields, can rotate shields, and has a native feel no pain, its surprisingly tougher as an escort to your short ranged demolisher tank (which is something and somewhere the wyvern can't help you.)

Anyway, that's my advice .. I tried to figure out synergies you hadn't fully exploited and refocus things so you could. Even if it cost you a pair of bullygrn ultimately.

 Smotejob wrote:

I likely should put a couple more offensive psykers in the list, just not sold on wyrdvanes. They don't have the longevity most psykers do because they don't have the character keyword.

slip wrote:
I find 1/3 bruteshield 2/3 slabshield a good ratio. I generally put a slabshield on the bone ead, not picking him to take a lascannon shot ya know?

 Smotejob wrote:


5. My buffed up conscript squad did prevent the gk from getting to mid board til turn 4. Good luck shifting 30 4++ models in cc. Where ap means nothing.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
You know, you could give your whole army -1 to be hit, basically, if you strung the bullygrn out and 5++ >> 4++ on them, slap an astropath -1 to be hit on them as well, and then ran shield of flesh so eveyrthing behind them (if you kept the army in a deathball, anyway) suddenly is -1 to be hit as a bonus. Well, infantry within 3inch, anyway.

I know everyone and their second cousin is killing gravis these days, but they also take for granted that gaurd are just easy prey for their bolterswarm and easy kill for their melee ball.

Maybe Gaurd resiliencey army 2.0 is in the works .

Dukeofstuff wrote:
I think this army would be a threat to marine players in a tournament level game. It might be a slight uphill fight cause lets face it, they cheat by dint of their ruleset, but it wouldn't be a cakewalk even then.

Its more a rough and tumble melee list than my usual instinct to build (cause scions. scions!) but its pretty dang awesome.

AHA! an actual suggestion. Your new squad of 3 plasma isn't a bad thing, but what if it were a single ministerium priest instead?
+1 A x 9 bullygrn maul swings is not trivial, and +1A over 80 infantry isn't either. As a priest, those 45 points would be character protected rather than out in the middle of the bolterstorm.

I was looking over your feedback about how thigns went for the grey knights game and your bullyboys did a few marines and then died of mortal wounds. Remember, however, you have a lot more of them now, in a bigger blob. So I reckon maybe buffing them up 1/3 or so in whackpower might be more useful than just adding a couple more plasma guns with bs4+ that diffidently shoot -- and then are very, very easy to kill with any marine screen's 5 man infiltrator or incursor squad going pew pew.

Dunno if this is a good idea or not with the army you have -- I too agree that concentration of threat in a local dropzone (or stratreserve move zone) is key -- but a worry I have is that in a non-grey knights game, especailyl any game with a few infiltrators units on the board, you may be literally unable to bring in any strategic reserves at all. (if you place 15 infiltrators carefully its possible to more or less prevent all reinforcment in the game, boom. Suddenly its critical that the assets on the board already perform 110 percent.