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I'm new to 40k and just saw that the Bladeguard veterans box was being released soon. This mainly applies to people who got Indomitus and have played a game with their Bladeguard Vets. Should I get them? What pros and cons are there to them?

Anything you've got would be appreciated.

I like them. I think they're a lot of fun. I'll take Guilliman, his Vixtrix, some Bladeguard and rush them up the field.

I'd consider them discount Custodes. 4 invul and save of 2 is nice. They'll still die but they'll take a lot of shots unless you're unlucky.

Play them as dark angels and all you have to really do is push them across the board and win

Played against them. They're solid units, basically a Custodes unit in the SM roster. Take them as a mid-field objective holder.

They are very very very good.

They have good defense. 3 wounds. And kill things in close combat. Packs a big punch for a minimum squad meaning they are a good option to push opponents of objectives. 2+ 3 wounds means just throwing dice at them is not ideal. you need some AP.

They are outclassed by sang guard in ba

I don't leave home without them. They're sturdy, pack a punch and look sweet. Only downside is they're infantry-slow, which is half bad with current board size and the usual brawl in the center of the board. And if you really need to you can fling them upfield with an Impulsor for a turn.

The Indomitus command units work well with them, the Judiciar makes sure that they get their hits in first, and the Bladeguard Ancient gives you a bonus to hit AND if the enemy hit back and kill anyone, they get a bonus round of shooting before they're removed from the table. I'm playing Blood Angels so they're fairly ferocious!

Eradicators and BGVs are the strongest two units in the SM codex right now. They are crazy good, and in the right chapter they are frankly a bit imba.

If you are going DA then take Deathwing Terminators with SS/THs instead. DA DW anything right now is very good. BGV especially.

I'm doing a custom chapter so I won't be able to take any chapter-specific units. Considering that there slow I'll probably use a faster unit to get in close with the enemy to limit their fire output so I can bring up my BGVs later on in the game.

In my eyes BGV are a unit that you park on a mid field objective and tell your opponent to come and get it.

So you don't need an awful lot of movement out of them, just 9-12" to get into middle of the table. Not into his deployment zone.

They make for pretty good character body guards also.

 Ordana wrote:
In my eyes BGV are a unit that you park on a mid field objective and tell your opponent to come and get it.

So you don't need an awful lot of movement out of them, just 9-12" to get into middle of the table. Not into his deployment zone.

This is the most opressive way I've seen them used, stack with cheif necormancer and the specific secondary for esentially a brutal/broken combo of take this point or I'm going to score all the VP's.

Aren't DW knights basically the same thing? Only they have storm Bolters?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aren't DW knights basically the same thing? Only they have storm Bolters?

Knights don't have stormbolters no? I don't play DA. Terminators do but I think the storm shield is much more important then a gun considering their job as objective holders and then BGV are a fair bit cheaper.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aren't DW knights basically the same thing? Only they have storm Bolters?

Deathwing Knight's are melee only theoretically they can do the same thing as BGV, however Deathwing terminators can mix and match stormshields and thunderhammer models with heavy weapons or storm bolters.

Ice_can wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aren't DW knights basically the same thing? Only they have storm Bolters?

Deathwing Knight's are melee only theoretically they can do the same thing as BGV, however Deathwing terminators can mix and match stormshields and thunderhammer models with heavy weapons or storm bolters.

You are right, I saw a video where a person used the following image to talk about DW units, and he was talking about knights when he showed it, and I mistook the captain with the giant sword and SB as a deathwing knight. Bottom Middle for reference. My apologies.

 Ordana wrote:
In my eyes BGV are a unit that you park on a mid field objective and tell your opponent to come and get it.

So you don't need an awful lot of movement out of them, just 9-12" to get into middle of the table. Not into his deployment zone.

This. I've been having excellent results with a blob of 2 5-mans, an apothecary, and a Judiciar. Shooting has trouble hurting them and melee dares not come near them. Just make sure you do have mobile hammers as well so your anvil doesn't get split up and taken out piecemeal.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aren't DW knights basically the same thing? Only they have storm Bolters?

Deathwing Knight's are melee only theoretically they can do the same thing as BGV, however Deathwing terminators can mix and match stormshields and thunderhammer models with heavy weapons or storm bolters.

You are right, I saw a video where a person used the following image to talk about DW units, and he was talking about knights when he showed it, and I mistook the captain with the giant sword and SB as a deathwing knight. Bottom Middle for reference. My apologies.

The 5 guys in the middle with the green hoods are Knights.
They have storm shields and a choice of mace or flail.

 Ordana wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Aren't DW knights basically the same thing? Only they have storm Bolters?

Deathwing Knight's are melee only theoretically they can do the same thing as BGV, however Deathwing terminators can mix and match stormshields and thunderhammer models with heavy weapons or storm bolters.

You are right, I saw a video where a person used the following image to talk about DW units, and he was talking about knights when he showed it, and I mistook the captain with the giant sword and SB as a deathwing knight. Bottom Middle for reference. My apologies.

The 5 guys in the middle with the green hoods are Knights.
They have storm shields and a choice of mace or flail.

I think it's actually all Maces, with the Sarge getting a Flail.

But yeah, those are the Deathwing Knights.

Cpt. Voltarius wrote:
I'm doing a custom chapter so I won't be able to take any chapter-specific units. Considering that there slow I'll probably use a faster unit to get in close with the enemy to limit their fire output so I can bring up my BGVs later on in the game.

If I understand the rules you can take a chapter-specific unit if you are a sucksessor chapter of said chapter. However you do not get special characters and pay through the nose for relics. But you get units and stratagems on top of the regular SM once. Like, if you are SW sucksessor you get thunderwolves (+1 to advance and charge custom trait?) I do not know about BA and DA, but I suppose that is true there as well.

They are good, but there are decent alternatives that can be more flexible than BGV.

For example, relic terminators with LCs and combi-bolters cost about the same as BGV. I've done some mathhammer and basically the BGV are slightly more durable and have better damage output if you just look at shooting then charging (i.e. without considering that they can shoot in the next shooting phase whilst being in engagement range with the pistols, something relic or ordinary terminators can't do). So to my mind, that makes them a superior unit... IF (*IF*) can you can get them into the opponents face reliably (e.g. Raven Guard shenanigans).

In contrast relic terminators (most comparable based on cost) are nearly as durable (ignoring transhuman for the moment) less damage output but have better range (so can contribute in shooting phase in a more meaningful way) but also better mobility via native teleport deepstrike and cheaper transport option (e.g. drop pods, rhinos etc.).

So I think, for me, it depend on what you want to do with them:

1. Do you want to use only melee to kill something, bog the opponent down or take an objective? then Assault Terminators (AT) > BGV > Relic Terminators (RT) > Normal Terminators (NT)

2. Do you want to mainly use melee to kill something, bog the opponent down or take an objective, but would also like some shooting? then BGV > RT > NT > AT

3. Do you want something flexible that you can deploy just about anywhere, with balanced shooting (with decent range and/or some optional anti-tank/heavy) and decent melee? then NT > RT > BGV > AT

If building a TAC list, I'd take both in roughly equal points value.

So I fought a DG list recently. I took two units of BGV. Two plaguecasters, a flamer unit and a unit of poxwalkers did 14MW to them in a single turn (and that was with a 5+++ I gave them for the worst of it).

I think they may not be as durable in the emerging metas as they were in the old.

I run them as my blood angels anvil. Turn 3+ they are throwing out 5 attacks apiece, and the 2+4++ with a potential trans human makes them real durable, and an apothecary just boosts it more. For any list make sure you have some fast strikers to complement them, they are not fast, and keeping support characters like Judiciars in formation can slow them down even more. From what I’ve seen, a few are practically an autotake to bully points unless you have access to something like Deathwing Knights (Sanguinary are not comparable, they fill different roles). How many you take is up to you.

Like other people have said, they are not flexible and they do die, but man they take a long time to do so. And they mulch most anything that gets in front of them.

Audustum wrote:
So I fought a DG list recently. I took two units of BGV. Two plaguecasters, a flamer unit and a unit of poxwalkers did 14MW to them in a single turn (and that was with a 5+++ I gave them for the worst of it).

I think they may not be as durable in the emerging metas as they were in the old.

They were okay for a moment before flat 2 became utterly useless.

Marines on the whole need to focus on shooting - if a unit can melee and shoot (the melee is a bonus) and should be used defensively.

DG and one DA banner just happen to counter D2, utterly useless is a real big stretch. Marines have good shooting and good melee so you can do really well kitted for either, but without some melee units to bully points you’re going to have a bad time, and BGV do that job probably the best in the base codex.

A unit of five or six Dark Angel Bladeguard Veterans make a great mid-field take/hold and block unit. They will die to massed fire and Mortal Wounds, but they are pretty darned resilient. Its an investment, but add a Judiciar and the "Line Unbreakable" strat and you can also hold off hordes in melee.

SirGunslinger wrote:
DG and one DA banner just happen to counter D2, utterly useless is a real big stretch. Marines have good shooting and good melee so you can do really well kitted for either, but without some melee units to bully points you’re going to have a bad time, and BGV do that job probably the best in the base codex.

You are thinking to small.
Necrons more or less don't care about damage.
They have reanimations.
Marines are probably spamming dreads
DG ignore flat 2 across the board.
Most Hq's have an option for -1 damage and who the heck wont take it?
Then there is 1 wound models that don't care ether way. daemons and quins.

Those are the top armies in 40k - flat 2 is utterly/practically useless vs all of them.

Better off taking more intercessors IMO. Take TH on the sergeant.

 Xenomancers wrote:

SirGunslinger wrote:
DG and one DA banner just happen to counter D2, utterly useless is a real big stretch. Marines have good shooting and good melee so you can do really well kitted for either, but without some melee units to bully points you’re going to have a bad time, and BGV do that job probably the best in the base codex.

You are thinking to small.
Necrons more or less don't care about damage.
They have reanimations.
Marines are probably spamming dreads
DG ignore flat 2 across the board.
Most Hq's have an option for -1 damage and who the heck wont take it?
Then there is 1 wound models that don't care ether way. daemons and quins.

Those are the top armies in 40k - flat 2 is utterly/practically useless vs all of them.

Better off taking more intercessors IMO. Take TH on the sergeant.

That's why I still don't understand the hype about D2 weapons, they're in the worst state ever compared to D3 which are perfectly suited for the current meta