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Our 2nd Battle of 2021 will be Orc History Month: a 2500 Point "Meeting Engagement" Scenario. (Scenario 3 from page 203 of the BigRedBook)

This game is practice for the Campaign and will not count towards the 2021 MOHL League Standings. Having said that, I am still going to be hungry for that win. My winless streak goes back to January 2020... yikes.


SPECIAL RESTRICTIONS
The only Army List restrictions are as follows:

1.We both MUST select our General from one of the following: Azhag The Slaughterer, Grimgor Ironhide, Grom the Paunch, Wurrzag Ud Ura Zahubu, Borgut Facebeater, or Skarsnik of Karak-Eight-Peaks.
2. Dogs of War selections are limited to the following (but you do not HAVE to bring any): Oglah Khan's Wolf Boyz, Rugludd's Armoured Orcs, Voland's Venators, or Ogres from the Ogre Kingdoms Army Book as normal.



MY FIRST CRACK-- THE ROUGH DRAFT LIST:

LORDS (0-1)

Azhag the Slaughterer. (LVL 2 Wizard, but also Stupid) I want to bring him for High LD, the Terror bomb, and the Quell Animosity. 500 Points. (Rules found here - courtesy of Brr-Icy https://wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_3.html)

HEROES (0-3)

Azhag occupies a Hero Slot.
Azhag's Wyvern, Skullmuncha, occupies a Hero Slot.
Goblin Big Boss. Light Armour. This is the Battle Standard Bearer. Magic Standard: Guff's Flag (re-roll 1 failed Panic Test). 87 Points.

CORE (3+)

Snotling Swarm x 8. 200 Points.
Savage Orc Boyz x 25. Spears, Shields, Warpaint. Full Command. 278 Points.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 15. (Identical Rules to Wolf Boyz except: -2" to movement, Wall-Crawlerz). Spears, Shields & Light Armour (No Longer Fast Cavalry!). Poisoned Attacks (Spiders only) for +2 pts/model. Full Command. 240 Points.
Night Goblins x 40. Spears, Shields. 3 Fanatics. 6 Netters. Champion, Musician. 219 Points

SPECIAL (0-4)

Savage Orc Boar Boyz x 10. Spears, Shields, Warpaint. Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: The War Banner (addtl Combat Res point). 256 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.

RARE (0-2)

Giant. 205 Points.
Ogre Ironguts x 5 (Ogre Kingdoms pg 70, Dogs of War Special Rule). Great Weapons, Heavy Armour, Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: Ragbanner (the unit is Cold Blooded). 305 Points.

TOTAL: 2500 Points.



Reasoning:
1 I want the Psych advantage
2 I want the shooting advantage
3 I dont want him to have an easy time picking targets/landing charges
4 Azhag is mobile with his LD 9 and can help the Boars/Spiderz pass any Psych/Animosity tests they'll need to pass to get Charges off, while also hopefully delivering a Terror Bomb.
5 The Goblin Big Boss can embed with the Night Goblins to raise their LD from 5 to 7, lets them re-roll their first Panic! and gives the infantry line 2 tries on each Break Test

Let me know what you guys think of this set up for a Greenskin civil war

ATTACHED

Excel with all Equipment, Special Rules, and Points Costs, as well as a "Bull Pen" of other considered roster subs

Looks interesting, I like your thoughts on the job of each unit in your list.

But let me bring up 2 issues to consider:

You have a big centerpiece model with Azhag, who is

- subject to stupidity : How are you going to deal with the risk of a failed test?

- your only spellcaster - meaning you have 4 Power Dice and 3 Dispel Dice. What are you expecting to go up against? Chances are your enemy is not going to rely on magic too - or rather a lot? With Skarsnik, Wurzzag, and Grom it could be the case, no?

Spear Chuckas - are the most effective unit against heavy cav and large targets, good against ranked elite infantry and chariots - how lokely is it he is going to field a lot of these units?

Frenzy seems like it gives you a psych advantage, but they can also be kited with ease. I've discussed this with you before, I'm just not sure if your opponent has figured it out yet. Picture your Savage Orc units moving off toward your flanks, potentially blocking LOS and leaving you without much in the way of hammer units. That can be done with the smallest, cheapest units of Wolf Riders.

Also, unless you're hoping to dedicate an entire round of shooting at one unit a turn, each Spear Chukka will at max kill the number of ranks. 4 deep? Max 4 dead per war machine, not even enough to force a panic test. Group volley at a cav unit? Absolutely. Those are decent but must be used right.

These are very thoughtful responses. Thank you guys very much for taking the time to provide that feedback.

Regarding Azhag's stupidity: ...I actually dont have much of a plan there. With his LD 9 I'm hoping I can get away with it happening only once in the game

Regarding him being the only Wizard: I don't think my opponent values Magic very highly and I don't see him pouring many resources into a lot of Power Dice

Regarding my Opponent's most likely General choice: I am 90% sure he's going with Skarsnik. (Rules found here- courtesy of Brr-Icy https://wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com/p/skarsnik.html)He just bought the model and it looks really good

Regarding my Savage Orcs being kited/how likely he is to field an elite infantry unit (black orcs) or heavy cav: Like Tony said, I don't believe he is going to kite me or else I would not value the Frenzy as highly. He has been getting away with an undefeated streak for over a year while studying way less than me. He picks units he thinks sound/look cool and has a special affinity for cavalry charges. For those reasons I think Savage Orc Spearmen and 6 Chukkas could do the trick. The Chukkas are just so cheap that I think they're worth bringing 6... I think. I am going to try to focus targets as much as I can.


QUESTIONS: If I took 2 of them (Spear Chukkas) away to open up a Special Slot for somebody else, what would I replace them with for only 70 pts? Or would I leave the Special Slot open and beef up another unit with 70 pts of Boyz? Or would I want to bring some Wolves in Core maybe?

As far as the Rare Slots go, do Ogre Ironguts seem like a good DoW selection? Assuming my opponent isn't running Chukka spam like me do you guys think the Giant stacks up well against da boyz?

Circling back to my Characters, do these seem like good Characters to bring in a Greenskin civil war? Azhag taking up 3 Slots makes selecting that last guy kind of tough but Azhag does bring a lot of value to the table (on turns when he isnt stupid) and I really think I could cause some flees with Terror Bombs this month. And I know I only have one spellcaster but I think having LD 7 Gobbos with their first Panic ignored and 2 chances on every Break could be really fearsome in concert with Unbreakable swarms and Frenzied spearmen

Personally I would throw in a unit of Wolves there somewhere. The redirection is nice, and they are pretty cheap. Just keep them fast cav and don't bother with bows, you'll likely only kill 1-2 models the entire game with that shooting if you're LUCKY.

 Just Tony wrote:
Personally I would throw in a unit of Wolves there somewhere. The redirection is nice, and they are pretty cheap. Just keep them fast cav and don't bother with bows, you'll likely only kill 1-2 models the entire game with that shooting if you're LUCKY.

I agree 100%.

The 55/60 points for 5 Wolf riders might well redirect an enemy unit away from an important charge on e.g. Azhag, when he stumbled somewhere stupidly when he shan't.

What I noticed: You didn't buy a banner for the Night Goblins, I think you really should if they are supposed to hold in close combat! That 10 points for a plus 1 are very well invested!

Remember you will get an additional +1 for the Battle Standard for Combat resolution, no matter if there already is a Standard in the unit or not!

Leading me to another point - do you think your BSB will survive a round of combat? He better! I can't remember the rules of Netters in 6th exactly, I know you can throw a net for each model, which causes the enemy to lose an attack if he is hit by the net, but I am not sure: Must the Netters be in first rank to do so? Or can they throw from 2nd rank? Are they replacing Character models or Command Group models that way? Can you pick the model which is supposed to lose an attack? Kind of depends on that how well your BSB with WS 4, T4 and 2 LP and a measly 6+ AS is protected in the unit, or, at all...

If you decide there is a high risk he will be put out of commission in the very first round of combat, it might be wort reconsidering to give him some means of magical protection instead of Guffz Flag. Maybe that nice +1armor for 30 points?

A large portion of panic tests, at least from what I remember, is coming from the 25% losses section per shooting/magic phase. You already have 40 models in the unit, meaning he'll have to kill quite a few black robed Gits until that rule applies.

Of course Guffz Flag is useful for such a low morale unit nevertheless, you still have to test because of routed units nearby, flank charges while already in combat (although that pretty much is a death sentence for the unit most of the time anyways..)...

Just some additional ideas to consider.

No, you won't get both the BSB and the SB. That was brought in during 7th. 6th was very much either/or.

Oh crap, mixed that up, sorry!!

MY SECOND TRY-- THE BLACK ORC/ARRER BOYZ/WOLF RIDERS VARIANT:

LORDS (0-1)

Azhag the Slaughterer. (LVL 2 Wizard, but also Stupid) I want to bring him for High LD, the Terror bomb, and the Quell Animosity. 500 Points. (Rules found here - courtesy of Brr-Icy https://wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_3.html)

HEROES (0-3)

Azhag occupies a Hero Slot.
Azhag's Wyvern, Skullmuncha, occupies a Hero Slot.
Orc Shaman LVL 2. Buzgob's Knobbly Staff (re-roll all dice rolled in a casting attempt once per magic phase). 150 Points.

CORE (3+)

Snotling Swarm x 6. 150 Points.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 15. (Identical Rules to Wolf Riders except: -2" to movement, Wall-Crawlerz). Spears, Shields & Light Armour (No Longer Fast Cavalry!). Poisoned Attacks (Spiders only) for +2 pts/model. Full Command. 240 Points.
Orc Arrer Boyz x 15. Banner, Musician.135 Points.
Goblin Wolf Riders x 6. Spears & Shields. Musician. 78 Points.

SPECIAL (0-4)

Savage Orc Boar Boyz x 10. Spears, Shields, Warpaint. Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: The War Banner (addtl Combat Res point). 256 Points.
Black Orcs x 21. Heavy Armour, Additional Choppas, Shields. Full Command. Magic Standard: Nogg's Banner of Butchery (One Use Only, +1A each model in the unit). 331 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.

RARE (0-2)

Giant. 205 Points.
Ogre Ironguts x 5 (Ogre Kingdoms pg 70, Dogs of War Special Rule). Great Weapons, Heavy Armour, Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: Ragbanner (the unit is Cold Blooded). 305 Points.

TOTAL: 2500 Points.



Reasoning:

This addresses concerns about Azhag being the only Spellcaster. (added lvl 2 shaman)
This addresses concerns about Savage Orc infantry being vulnerable to Animosity/Kiting (replaced by Black Orcs)
This addresses concerns about the survivability of the Goblins (benched)
This adds Wolf Riders Fast Cavalry as suggested
This maintains shooting superiority while dropping 2 chukkas

I think we maintain Psych superiority and come in with the scarier team Fear and Terror wise, with some high LD (compared to other Greenskins) and the ability to win combats as well as hopefully the magic and shooting phases.
I'm hoping this team is mobile enough to land charges while staying tough enough to really win out those Combat Resolutions

Does this seem like a more well rounded army?

There are essentially four types of units in WFB: Hammers, Anvils, Redirectors, and Shooters. Now there is some nuance lost generalizing like that, but broadly it applies.

Looking at your list you have almost half your unit count dedicated to Shooters, which is arguable the least affective phase of the game.

You also are extremely light on Anvils, and those will be your bread and butter unless you're aiming for an alpha strike Quick Response Force (QRF) type army. You are going to get charged, that's just the nature of the game. Your Anvils' jobs are to take the charge with a reasonable chance of surviving it and holding the unit up so your Hammers can flank.

Every army I ever write starts out with bare minimum 3 Anvil units. They may be spearmen or really well armored, but their job is to hold the enemy. Unbreakable tarpits also fill this roll.

If you think the Savage Orc Spear Boyz can be kited, what makes you think the Savage Orc Boar Boyz can't?

Also, you brought up whether or not to drop 2 Spear Chukkas for a different Special in the earlier post. Why would it have to be a Special? You don't need to fill your Special, Rare, and Character slots automatically. Orcs have cheap enough units you could get away with it, but as you're running a few things a bit on the pricey side you lose that advantage.

I also have to ask: why 15 Spider Riderz?

So, let's go through your version 2.

You exchanged the BSB for an additional Level 2 Spellcaster with the Knobby Staff.
You exchanged Savage Orcs for Black Orcs.
To make up for the additional costs of these 2 units, you kicked out the most unreliable unit in your list, as you probably expected that without the support of the BSB it would be very likely they run at the first "opportunity".

So you are down to 2 regular anvil units, the Black Orcs and the Snotling Tarpit.
That seems to be a bit conservative considering the overall point value of 2500 points.
But I think you can, at least to some extent, use the giant and the Ogres as an anvil against most enemies, too, under certain preconditions: the Giant is stubborn on a 10, T5 and 6 wounds should give to all except the most powerful enemy units a hard time to walk just over. If he is at full wounds, you can surely "abuse" the giant as an anvil, too.
Same for the Ogre Ironguts. They might lose a round of combat if confronted with a unit with high passive combat res AND the potential to kill maybe on of them in CC. They will surely deal quite some damage with their great weapons in return, no matter if they were attacked. So with the banner making them cold-blooded, they are also quite a stable unit.

Both their Movement rate is also quite high, with M6 they can move around the battlefield with considerable speed, along with your other cavalry units and Azhag.


The Arrer Boys are new to the list, too. I guess you want to use them as "meatshield" for your Shaman. A separate unit per se is a good idea, as you don't want him to be in the Black Orcs where here will be in the middle of the battle. But I would not have picked Arrer Boys. They are 2 points more than a normal Orc Boy with shield, if I am remembering correctly. Why take 15, when you can have 20 with a better AS? The bows won't do a lot.

Tony already brought up two points:
1: The Savage Orc Boar Boys. They dish out quite some damage, and with the War Banner they even have an another +1 for Combat Res. If you can manage to get them charge the right units, favorably in the flank of another unit tarpitted in the previous round, they can be devastating. But frenzy makes it really difficult to get the unit in the right spot! They charge 14", so you will have a hard time keeping them from charging units you don't want to charge. You will need at least a babysitter unit or two to block line of sight. Unfortunately, Frenzy is not the only problem, Animosity is another one. Animosity is something you have to accept as an O&G player with a sigh, but frenzy AND animosity makes it really, really hard. Especially if you go up against someone who will not run into your set-ups blindly.

It really is worth considering: Are these additional 5 WS3 S4 attacks really making up for the trouble you have to go through to get the unit to work in the way planned? In some situations, it might well tip the balance in your favor, but in most situations...
Imagine NOT having to take care of this compulsory charges, but still having a solid offensive power while using normal Orc Boar Boys with Spears instead.

2: 15 Spider riderz. I guess you built them, you like their style, and you want to make good use of such a large cavalry unit.

15 are really a lot. But bottom line: They are still GOBLINS. They won't be winning by a glorious cavalry charge into the heart of the enemies finest. No. They will fail. Miserably

Lets face it, even with shields and light armor, they have T3 and a 4+ AS. If you lose a single goblin, you will only have a +1 for ranks left, if you set them up 5 wide. That's not too much. They can be supportive if you get to charge the enemy from behind, or flanks, where they are super useful, but without the light cavalry rule... well.

I really LIKE the idea of having a "Heavy Cavalry Goblin" unit, don't get me wrong.
I even tried once in a tournament to play a O&G Cavalry-only list (not in 6th edition, but with CE rules, but these are not THAT different from 6th ed.).
One of my main combat units was a 15 model Wolf riders unit, along with 2 Goblin heroes in it! The failed. Miserably.
In every game that day.
Taught me the hard way to NEVER rely on a Goblin unit to win CCs on their own.

Just to start off by sounding a tiny bit defensive I DIDNT actually think each Special Slot needed to be filled; I began editing by dropping the chukkas and adding in the Wolves and then i figured... why not swap the Savage Boyz for Black Orcs? Similar price for the Quell Animosity and the extra LD.

The fact that even against other gobbos a heavy cavalry goblin unit is a bad idea sort of breaks my heart. In my head i was going to run azhag, the boars, and the spiderz up a flank with Ld 9 and Quell Animosity, with the spiderz even able to clip through terrain, while my Black Orc Regiment quelled the main battle line back home. I thought that might land me a few flank charges as well as a Terror Bomb attempt.

When I am back in front of my computer, I will look into cutting them (the spiderz) down to Fast Cavalry size, striking the arrer boyz, and using those points to add in some Spearmen for another true anvil unit.

As for savage boar boyz vs regular boar boyz, ill consider making them regular but I may go against the grain and just keep them savage. I truly, truly dont think Corey knows what "kiting" is despite being undefeated against me for the past year. He straight up doesnt ever study (but wins every time of course).

As always, you guys are demonstrating how extremely knowledgeable you are and I am grateful you took the time to read through all this and help me prepare for a greenskin civil war. List exchanges are Saturday so I will be close to what I'm going to run by the end of today.


P.S. - You KNOW i need to hear more about this QRF comp and how players go about running it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SEMI-FINAL DRAFT -- THE BLACK ORC/SPEARBOYZ VARIANT:

LORDS (0-1)

Azhag the Slaughterer. (LVL 2 Wizard, but also Stupid) I want to bring him for High LD, the Terror bomb, and the Quell Animosity. 500 Points. (Rules found here - courtesy of Brr-Icy https://wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_3.html)

HEROES (0-3)

Azhag occupies a Hero Slot.
Azhag's Wyvern, Skullmuncha, occupies a Hero Slot.
Orc Shaman LVL 2. Buzgob's Knobbly Staff (re-roll all dice rolled in a casting attempt once per magic phase). 150 Points.

CORE (3+)

Snotling Swarm x 6. 150 Points.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. (Identical Rules to Wolf Riders except: -2" to movement, Wall-Crawlerz). Spears & Shields. Poisoned Attacks (Spiders only) for +2 pts/model. Musician. 90 Points.
Orc Boyz x 30. Spears & Shields. Full Command. 268 Points.
Goblin Wolf Riders x 6. Spears & Shields. Musician. 78 Points.

SPECIAL (0-4)

Orc Boar Boyz x 10. Spears & Shields. Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: The War Banner (addtl Combat Res point). 226 Points.
Black Orcs x 25. Heavy Armour, Additional Choppas, Shields. Full Command. Magic Standard: Nogg's Banner of Butchery (One Use Only, +1A each model in the unit). 383 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.

RARE (0-2)

Giant. 205 Points.
Ogre Ironguts x 5 (Ogre Kingdoms pg 70, Dogs of War Special Rule). Great Weapons, Heavy Armour, Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: Ragbanner (the unit is Cold Blooded). 305 Points.

TOTAL: 2500 Points.

Reasoning:

I've dropped the arrer boyz, and trimmed the Spiderz into Fast Cavalry to make room for another anvil (Orc Spearmen)
I also reverted the Savage Boar Boyz to normal Boar Boyz and used the leftover points to round out the Black Orcs into 5 ranks (could they be too much of a point suck weighing in at almost 400?)
I still think this army list can perform in each phase, and is relatively high LD for Greenskins, with some Fear and Terror causing units to hopefully prompt a flee or two out of the enemy


MARCHING ORDER:

I'm trying to work out what that should look like. I guess I'll want my Boar Boyz and Spearmen on either flank of the Black Orc Regiment, so maybe:

1) Black Orc Regiment (must deploy right up the middle)
2) Orc Boyz (Lets say to their right for now)
3) Boar Boyz (To the Black Orcs' left)
4) Snotling Swarm (To the Boar Boyz' left, that way the Boar Boyz have non-animosity anvils on both sides of them)
5) Ogre Ironguts (next to the Spearmen on the right)
6) Giant (whatever side looks like it could use a Terror boost)
7) Spider Riderz (side depending on terrain)
8) Wolf Riders (to whichever side the Spiderz don't go)
9) Spear Chukkas (allowed to go anywhere in the deployment zone)
10) The Shaman & Azhag


ATTACHED:
Excel showing all special rules, equipment, points, etc

I think I'm going to wait until you've committed before showing what list I'd throw up there. At this point it may be experience wind up being the best teacher.

EDIT: I'm a filthy liar. I had some time at work where I ran enough production to have almost 45 minutes of free time and was excessively bored so I got paid time and a half to bring you THIS...

730 – Lord – Grimgor and Bodyguard (1+19)
114 – Hero – Black Orc Big Boss with Nork’s Dead ‘Ard Armor and Great Weapon
145 – Hero – Night Goblin Shaman (Level 2) with Dispel Scrolls (2)
145 – Hero – Night Goblin Shaman (Level 2) with Dispel Scrolls (2)
125 – Core – Snotlings (5)
155 – Core – Night Goblins (20) with Fanatics (3) and Full Command
155 – Core – Night Goblins (20) with Fanatics (3) and Full Command
56 – Core – Wolf Riders (5) with Musician
56 – Core – Wolf Riders (5) with Musician
199 – Core – Orc Big ‘Uns (19) with extra hand weapon and Full Command
148 – Core – Orc Boyz (20) with shields and Full Command
257 – Special – Boar Boyz Big ‘Uns (10) with Full Command
80 – Special – Spear Chukkas (2) with Bullies
75 – Special – Spear Chukkas (2) with 1 Bully
205 – Giant

TOTAL: 2,500


Some shooting for flavor, just enough Magic stopping power to be viable, at least 4 Anvil units PLUS a Tarpit, really strong Hammer units for flanking, a few Redirectors, and a few units that could swing either direction when the time comes. Black Orc characters to quell some of that Animosity, a high Leadership general in the main line to bolster the Night Goblins' Leadership, AND a Giant for Terror bombing. All this, and a considerable footprint on the board.

However, you did ask for the QRF list...


Basically you're doing an entire cav list. Maybe chariots to taste, but I think Boar Boyz are better than Chariots. Issue is that you won't have Core Boar Boyz unless you run the 'Ard Boyz list from Storm of Chaos. You will have NO Anvils in that list, but it works on the theory that any of your fast cav can bait charges, Flee as a reaction which leaves the charger out in the open, then countercharge with the Boar Bozy. VERY risky but pays off if you know what you're doing.

I see immediately that this is an 'Ardboyz List (I think?). I definitely am interested in running one of those, possibly for the Khorne Bowl II in the fall.

My only questions about this list (which looks mean as hell, unlimited Big 'Uns?! Black Orcs in Core?!?) are these:

1) I'm seeing that there must be more Warbosses and Bigbosses than there are Great Shamans and Shamans. Would I have had to drop a Shaman to run this to make it 3-1? Or is 2-2 acceptable and they meant to write "equal to or more"?

2) I'm noticing A LOT of goblins and I was under the impression that 'Ardboyz Lists prohibit bringing those Snotling Swarms, Wolf Riders and Night Goblins. We may be looking at different List Restrictions though? I'm using the link Brr-Icy made here: https://wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com/p/grimgors-ardboyz.html. I completely acknowledge I have no idea if we're looking at the same thing here so your list may be completely up to code under a different set of rules than what I've seen...




Corey and I have exchanged lists! Here we go, pretty similar honestly (you can tell our only opponents are each other...)

MATT -- AZHAG THE SLAUGHTERER

LORDS (0-1)

Azhag the Slaughterer. (LVL 2 Wizard, but also Stupid) I want to bring him for High LD, the Terror bomb, and the Quell Animosity. 500 Points. (Rules found here - courtesy of Brr-Icy https://wfb6thcharacters.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_3.html)

HEROES (0-3)

Azhag occupies a Hero Slot.
Azhag's Wyvern, Skullmuncha, occupies a Hero Slot.
Orc Shaman LVL 2. Buzgob's Knobbly Staff (re-roll all dice rolled in a casting attempt once per magic phase). 150 Points.

CORE (3+)

Snotling Swarm x 6. 150 Points.
Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. (Identical Rules to Wolf Riders except: -2" to movement, Wall-Crawlerz). Spears & Shields. Poisoned Attacks (Spiders only) for +2 pts/model. Musician. 90 Points.
Orc Boyz x 30. Spears & Shields. Full Command. 268 Points.
Goblin Wolf Riders x 6. Spears & Shields. Musician. 78 Points.

SPECIAL (0-4)

Orc Boar Boyz x 10. Spears & Shields. Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: The War Banner (addtl Combat Res point). 226 Points.
Black Orcs x 25. Heavy Armour, Additional Choppas, Shields. Full Command. Magic Standard: Nogg's Banner of Butchery (One Use Only, +1A each model in the unit). 383 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. 35 Points.

RARE (0-2)

Giant. 205 Points.
Ogre Ironguts x 5 (Ogre Kingdoms pg 70, Dogs of War Special Rule). Great Weapons, Heavy Armour, Standard & Musician. Magic Standard: Ragbanner (the unit is Cold Blooded). 305 Points.

TOTAL: 2500 Points.


_______________________________________________________________


COREY -- SKARSNIK, WARLORD OF KARAK EIGHT-PEAKS


LORDS (0-1)

Skarsnik, accompanied by Gobbla. 205 Points.

HEROES (0-3)

Skarsnik occupies a Hero Slot.
Savage Orc Shaman LVL 2. Warpaint. Basha's Big Axe of Bashin' (+2 Attacks). 160 Points.
Savage Orc Shaman LVL 2. Warpaint. Dispel Scroll. 135 Points

CORE (3+)

Forest Goblin Spider Riderz x 6. (Identical Rules to Wolf Riders except: -2" to movement, Wall-Crawlerz). Spears & Shields. Poisoned Attacks (Spiders only) for +2 pts/model. Full Command. 114 Points.
Savage Orc Boyz x 40. Shields & Warpaint. Full Command. 348 Points.
Savage Orc Boyz x 40 (Big 'Uns). Shields & Warpaint. Full Command. 428 Points.
Savage Orc Boyz x 24. Shields & Warpaint. Champion & Musician. 210 Points.

SPECIAL (0-4)

Orc Boar Chariot. Extra Crewman. 86 Points.
Orc Boar Chariot. Extra Crewman. 86 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.
Goblin Spear Chukka. Orc Bully "Encourages" the Goblins (Immune to Goblin Panic while Bully Lives) . 40 Points.

RARE (0-2)

Giant. 205 Points.
River Trolls x 6. 360 Points.

TOTAL: 2497 Points.

No, that list was straight out of the O&G book, it just has Grimgor as you're forced to take named characters.

As far as an 'Ard Boyz list goes, I assume that unless they say equal or less that it's simply less as far as Shaman go.

 Just Tony wrote:
No, that list was straight out of the O&G book, it just has Grimgor as you're forced to take named characters.

As far as an 'Ard Boyz list goes, I assume that unless they say equal or less that it's simply less as far as Shaman go.

In that case, I don't think your list would be legal for the following:

1) Grimgor is already occupying a Lord & Hero Slot, and the Black Orc Big Boss is occupying 2 more Hero Slots.
2) Only one Unit can be made into Big 'Uns
3) The Big 'Uns Unit needs to be the same as a normal Unit we're already fielding, that has equal or more models (i.e to run 10 Boar Boy Big Uns we'd need to also field 10 regular Boar Boyz)

Having said all that, I definitely see solid parts of this I'd want to steal and experiment with. And I was being 100% serious when I said I might be running the 'Ardboyz this fall for the big Grudge Match Rematch, so a Grimgor list is really going to be something I want to do well.

Apparently I needed to read the book a bit further, and will double check a few things when I'm near a computer. Full disclosure it's been 12 years or more since I ran that army...

Is he letting Skarsnik run around the table alone? Or does he accompany any of the non-his-basesize units? Maybe the River Trolls?

I mean, Skarsnik and NO Night Goblins?? Odd.

I believe his plan is to embed them with the Trolls.

It's going to be quite a showdown I think. Similar armies but with enough differences for it to be alot of interesting matchups.

Is Skarsnik going to have protection against shooting like that in 6th, as long as he is part of the unit? Does that not depend on base size somehow in 6th? It's so looong ago I played with 6th ed rules... I somehow remember there was an edition when I had Orc Bosses on boars in infantry units, to get their AS boosted by +2.
Just can't remember if that was in 7th ed or 6th?

Well let's assume he gains protection against shooting from the unit he is with, and let's have a look at his army composition.
He has 3 blocks of frenzied units, 2 huge chunks with 40 models. I guess the idea was to create that super killy unit of 40 Savage Orc Big-Uns with 2 A S4 per model, S5 if they get the charge. The third unit seems like it was composed from kind of "leftover" points with 24 models. This could very well be the unit he plans to put in the savage orc shaman without magic weapon.

His army is super-unreliable, with animosity, stupidity on 8 (as long as they have Skarsnik to modify LD), and 3 frenzied units.
The advantage for him of course is, these units won't give a damn about you terror-causing Wyvern or Giant.

The Chariots and the giant are very reliable and dangerous to you in general.

The 4 Spear Chukkas are very unhealthy for you General and your Giant, so you must try to keep them out of sight of 'em.

Good news is: You have basically won the game if you are able to take out his chariots and the Spear Chukkas.

He has invested so many points into these Savage Orcs units, he HAS to come to you and try to get them into close combat.

You must make use of terrain as good as possible. Terrain really is your friend, especially forests.
Primary targets for your chuckas are from my POV:
1 Giant
2 Chariots / Trolls (if Skarsnik is included)
3 Spear Chuckas/ Trolls (if Skarsnik is not included
4 Savage Orcs
5 Goblin Spider Riders


To get the Big Points, all you have to to is getting the Big Blob of incontrollable Savage OrcBig Uns show their juicy flank to you. Set up a trap with your wolf riders and either your spear boys or your black orcs to lure them to you. he will see the opportunity to get them in cc with your Black Orcs or Spearmen, who he expects to defeat with his massive amount of attacks and the sheer numbers. but. if you let him move in to around 10 inches, and the moveyour wolf riders right in charge range, he will have to take that bait, of course you flee, giving you the opportunity to cointercharge, ideally with some hard hitter going for his flank








Automatically Appended Next Post:
the only means to defend against that tactic is to attack the decoy first, e.g. with the giant or any other unit with enough range. and, you cant pull that stunt if you're out of decoy units, so keep them behind your big blocks until you need them, preferrably your black orcs, so you do not have to worry about animosity.
if you are tempted to move out for spear chukka hunt, think what You REALLY need to do to win this game. chances are you get hit by some magic Missile e.g. from skarsniks prodder! so keep them in cover until you need them