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Apologies for the first mess,, I tried copy and paste from battlescribe... big mistake!


102 PL/2000pt Ravenguard 12CP

HQ

Shrike

2× Lieutenants in Phobos armor

Primaris Chaplin- litany of hate, exhortation of rage

Troops

Assault interccessors×9 with ×1 Sargent

×2 Infiltrator squad ×9 with ×1 Sargent

Intercessor squad×9 with ×1 Sargent

Elites

Judiciar

Fast Attack

Outrider Squad

×2 Suppressor squads

Heavy Support

×2 Eliminator Squads, 1 with Las Fusil

Eradicator Squad



Basically the contents of indomitus and 2 Vanguard boxes...

It was the quickest and most economical way to get what I needed for the thematic force I had in mind.

However it seems like it could be fairly tough, with alot of bodies that can get around the table.

Now, obviously I could have went with alot of the standard "good" stuff like bladeguard (which I have) and also Aggressors which I would like to have... im not really into marine vehicles looks wise.

I would also like to have some varieties of dreadnought.


So, would this lost be half way workable or no?

Not going to read through that mess, yikes. Shame as I really like stealth Raven Guard as a concept
Id suggest deleting and just writing the list manually without all the extra crap.

 bullyboy wrote:
Not going to read through that mess, yikes. Shame as I really like stealth Raven Guard as a concept
Id suggest deleting and just writing the list manually without all the extra crap.

Sorry about that, I tried copying from Battlescribe and that clearly didn't work...

I have since revised it, and would still like some input.

I'm pretty new to the game, as I've only played 2 games so far... and after gathering a ton of necrons and imperial guard I've decided to drink the Kool-aid and get marines also.

So, now I'm 3 armies deep.

Consider taking in those bladegaurd and a phobos librarian to give you better teeth in psyker phase and in melee phase -- and better resistance to the enemy psykers and melees.

Also, I think in your army (light on anti tank and light on anti-horde) you might equip the 10 intercessers with autoboltguns (10 extra shots) and a pair of grenade launchers (2d6 blast s3 shots) .. so you can spin them up with the 2 cp strategem for a rollicking 84 shots of anti-horde.

That's twice what your current setup of them does, and anti-horde is sort of their best trick.

Infiltrators are expensive for the result, because of a huge price premium put into stoping deepstrikes. 5 man squds of infiltrators do this just as well, and 5 man squads of incursors come with an haywire mine each and a bit better shooting and a bit better melee.
I would break these up and rejigger them that way, it gives you the 10 points for the 2 grenade launchers -- while adding some mortal wounds and bringing your 20 guys below 6 man unit targets for blast weapons.

There is other stuff. but you are new. So try as many tricks and different things as you can. Don't be afraid to proxy things like "eradicators? heck no, this week them's three plasma intercepters with really funny looking double assault plasma weapons and ... sigh. its a proxy, man, deal."
out.
Proxying things will give you flexibility to try many new rules. I would maybe not worry so much abotu a perfect army for you right now, as about getting a bit of every single thing in the mix so you can try every single thing

Dukeofstuff wrote:

Proxying things will give you flexibility to try many new rules. I would maybe not worry so much abotu a perfect army for you right now, as about getting a bit of every single thing in the mix so you can try every single thing

Thanks for the input. I originally had the bladeguard in the list and ultimately removed them...mainly for thematic reasons in my head..

My Necron army and imperial guard I have far more optimized than these marines I think. I've been lucky enough to win my first 2 games... hope my luck holds out.

I'd like to win with these marines.

My friends play

Dark Angels
Space wolves
World eaters
Harlequins
Tyranids
Grey knights
Black legion
Geanstealer cult
Custodes
Imperial guard

While I have

IG
Necrons
Ravenguard

So you might consider a box for about 50 dollars of "hellblaster" troops. If you run them wiht the assault3 6/-4/1 or 7/-4/2 profile, they put out nearly as many shot as 2 boxes (ack) of plasma incepters (which is a very competitive unit right now). Clever use of either the strategem "strike from the shadows" or onboard placement and move by "master of ambush" can bring these heavy hitters where you need them safely and early as ravengaurd, dump out a lot of fireower that threatens marine, necron, custodes, grey knights, harliquin transports, intermediate armor assets of the genestealers, and imperial gaurd artillery armor (and bullygrn, flyers, and transports). They may not be exactly optimal for killing leman russes, but your eradicators are, and you greatly increase the leveraged firepower of your army with that single purchase.

What do you have for IG? I have had decent success mixing my ravengaurd successor marines with IG tanks and a few gaurdsmen to babysit objectives and shoot at hordes. The possibility of a soup list with a lot of your ravengaurd troops between a couple of leman russ tanks (I use them with a plasma turret, twin plasma cannon, and a lascannon on a tank commander chasis, with the -1 damage from range tank ace strat. Essentially turns them into a very shooty redempter dreadnaughts that cost more than actual dreadnaughts, but I guess I like the ability to back around walls AFTER shooting. That's unique to tallarn. Its a lot of firepower soup to add to the ravengaurd list, at the cost (sadly) of reducing slightly the effectiveness of the marines (because they no longer get phases, the troop weapons don't get free ap on turn 2.)

But its still a strong combo -- and if you already have a couple of Leman russ and a manticore, you could potentially build a hybrid army in this age of soup that works pretty well. And, incidentally, a soup list like that would not be a bad place to stick hellblasters, they have enough AP that they never notice the loss of phase 2 and phase 3 in the game.

Something like

Tank commander Tallarn (I like tallarns but many people currently prefer to get their smidge of extra range by going for custom regiments with +6 inches and reroll shot count) with 2 multimelta, plasma turret executioner cannon, and flamer. WARLORD. Tank ace -1 to be damaged at range.
Tank commander Tallarn (2 MM, 1 Executioner Cannon, 1 flamer)
10 imperial gaurd regulars with a grenade launcher
10 imperial gaurd regulars with a grenade launcher
10 imperial gaurd regulars with a grenade launcher
platoon commander
engenseer
astropath with +1 save buff (shield fo theemperor)
astropath with -1 to be hit buff (nightshroud)
Ravengaurd.
Shrike
Chaplain (master of ambush. Make sure he can give +1 to hit to those hellblasters)
10 assault intercesser / 10 chainsword
5 infiltrators
5 infiltrators (these guys will be your "keep the genestealers off my expensive shooters" now
5 infiltrators
5 infiltrators
10 hellblasters

This list will have a VERY different play to it. Shrike infiltrates forward to support the hellblasters. the infiltrators saturate the midboard with "no landing" zones that protect your flanks, and the two leman russ apply pressure from distance (possibly coming in on turn 2, if your opponent looks like he would make them vanish on turn 1 if you go second. Remember tallarns can easily tuck a couple tanks into strategic reseve and ambush, respectively.

your Chaplain's master of ambush drags the hellblasters where they need to be, shrike joins, chaplain gives them a _+1 to hit, and you fire the first 30 of your (on an average round) 46 or so plasma, backed up by your 8 multimelta shots. That's going to give you a very healthy

Artillery phase. Stick the hellblasters where they can get at enemy manitcores (using infiltrators to keep the enemy from screening them out) on turn 1. kill manticores.
Tank/knight phase. 46 plasma and 8 MM are a solid tank phase.
Marine/necron. You got this, really, see above statement.
horde. even 30 gaurdsmen with 3 grenade launchers is decent antihorde, you can FRFSRF 2 of them to put out a good amount of hordekill. This isn't the strongest poit of your army, but you also can't overlook the tanks firing (their weapons put out about 24+8 +2d6 flames in the case of a horde) and the marine infantry firing, every bit helps, and the 30 shots from hellblasters set on lower power (just find a unit of 30 termagaunts and make it vanish) It passes the test my competitive friends like to mention of "could this kill 50 orks a turn" -- and it has a decent answer in those distributed 4x5 infiltrator to make the enemy unable to jump da boys in, or just show up with lots of genestealers. Oh! And the assault infantry can take down a pretty big unit or two of horde, on the charge, with just something like 40 swings of its chainswords.
Psykers. You won't win this phase, but you DO have 2 denies in play, that's an improvement.

Melee is your glaring weakness here. Your army won't be pushing anyone's dreadnaughts off the objective with melee, but you have enough shooters that can affect things with high armor, you can do it with massed plasma fire. But remember, to not melee with leman russ tanks, they don't enjoy. Its perfectly valid to use infiltrator zones and gaurd screens to keep the enemy off oyur shooty stuff, and then just blast away .. cause you can concievably kill 30 marines a turn with your guns all blazing into a mob of intercessers (or similar quantities of stuff like necrons) and leave the enemy unable to cover multiple objectives with screens. While you still can.

Now, you should check my math (I did it in my head this time) and you should also consider that 3 eradicators (while certainly not as good as 10 hellblasters) could be used in the same role to break up enemy armor, and augmented with your current pool of lasfusil eliminators, in this same list.

I think that ends up costing a bit more, but you can probably pay for it if you drop couple grenade launchers, and maybe you scale the multimeltas back to being jsut plasma cannons. (Still good, as your tanks will be using them at range, of course). In a pinch, lose one or both astropath, but I really like the "my tallarn tank has -1 to be hit and +1 to save, AND is going to hide behidn the corner where you can't hit it with direct fire". I really like that.



Tallarn tanks ability to move 6 inches before OR after firing is the key to using them here. There will be many cases where you just stick the orders on them into giving them a reroll 1's (useful with the turret plasma's risk of overheat) but there will be some where you can use a corner to fire, then back out of sight, then move forward 4.8 inches to fire, then back out of sight. Drives folks mad, and its why I almost only take tallarn tankers.

Anyway, that's a hybrid army suggestion that I wouldn't feel uncomfortable taking into a tournament, even though I fairly well confess there are stronger builds, it uses things you have. I don't know what gaurd stuff you have -- but its also possible to make a similar list where instead of two tank commanders, you bring 2 manticores in the back rw, and a few more marine elements to spread across the board. That gives you rear area holders (gaurd should take mortars in this case) and indirect fire, while the marines can bring the bladegaurd (at least) and prehaps the judicar from the price difference. That would give you indirect and melee -- but a lot less direct.

Dukeofstuff wrote:


Anyway, that's a hybrid army suggestion that I wouldn't feel uncomfortable taking into a tournament, even though I fairly well confess there are stronger builds, it uses things you have. I don't know what gaurd stuff you have -- but its also possible to make a similar list where instead of two tank commanders, you bring 2 manticores in the back rw, and a few more marine elements to spread across the board. That gives you rear area holders (gaurd should take mortars in this case) and indirect fire, while the marines can bring the bladegaurd (at least) and prehaps the judicar from the price difference. That would give you indirect and melee -- but a lot less direct.

That is certainly an interesting idea... I do have a ton of guard stuff... basilisks, manticore, many flavors of leman russ and some sentinels... and loads of troops and heavy weapons teams. Only thing I don't really have are any Psykers or flyers.

The hellblasters have caught my eye, and I will likely get some. I've also been eyeing another box of eradicators.

I'v also been needing to get a librarian and an apothecary.

I don't think I'll mix the 2 forces, only because I can do well with the IG on their own, and the Necrons are ridiculously strong imo... so I just wanna make the marines stand on their own 2 feet so to speak.

Also, this army is more beholden to a theme for me than the actually functionality inside my local meta... but I would still like to keep them sharp.

Thanks for your perspective.

I know none of my ideas are perfect but I happen to be working on a ravengaurd (sometimes ravengaurd successor) tournament army of my own, and since I am (mostly) a gaurd player, its hard for me not to think gaurd. Perhaps that is why my list ends up workign a lot like scions in valkyries, so far.

Anyway, yeah, hellblasters -- I always undervalued them, recently I been thinking of them as a bunch of ever so slightly weak plasma that never drops its shot count. I run an ancient next to the heavy firepower in my army, so anyone who smiles and shoots ten hbs off the table will suck 15 (average impact of 10 4+ rolls x 1 weapon that fires 3 times) shots back into something within 24 inches of the blob -- which I expect to have pretty forward on the table. Thats enough to kill an entire unit of hellblasters right back!

You know, I thnk this conversation may well have changed my lineup yet again, and I have to thank oyu for that. I never really looked at the hellblasters just as "what is the very best unit to put beside an ancient?"

Dukeofstuff wrote:
I know none of my ideas are perfect but I happen to be working on a ravengaurd (sometimes ravengaurd successor) tournament army of my own, and since I am (mostly) a gaurd player, its hard for me not to think gaurd. Perhaps that is why my list ends up workign a lot like scions in valkyries, so far.

Anyway, yeah, hellblasters -- I always undervalued them, recently I been thinking of them as a bunch of ever so slightly weak plasma that never drops its shot count. I run an ancient next to the heavy firepower in my army, so anyone who smiles and shoots ten hbs off the table will suck 15 (average impact of 10 4+ rolls x 1 weapon that fires 3 times) shots back into something within 24 inches of the blob -- which I expect to have pretty forward on the table. Thats enough to kill an entire unit of hellblasters right back!

You know, I thnk this conversation may well have changed my lineup yet again, and I have to thank oyu for that. I never really looked at the hellblasters just as "what is the very best unit to put beside an ancient?"

Yea, 40k lists I've learned have a way of constantly changing... but I've also come to believe that all things can be made to work, just a matter of how and for what situation.

One of the things I'm excited for is the Eliminators getting to shoot and then scurry off behind cover... that will surely frustrate some folks when you pick off their Chaplain or Librarian... etc..

The Suppressors just seemed like fun for me really, being able to just kinda drop them down and then move them away quickly...

The Assault Intercessors are turning out to be one of my favorite units tbh, the Chainswords could potentially do some real work, especially while in assault doctrine.

Aesthetically I prefer guard, with all the armor and grunts... just looks good to me.

My current favorite to play though is Necrons...they are so mean. If a little complicated.

It certainly is a good start for a Ravenguard list, and not too far from where I started.
One thing I would recommend (if you haven't started building yet), is not taking the assault intercessors and instead using their main bodies as a basis for vanguard Veterans with jump packs (or you could get some reivers cheapish and do the same with them). Just order 10 jump packs and then equip accordingly. Dual lightning claw is very fluffy, although having some be claw/stormshield adds durability.
This would then lean in nicely with accompanying Shrike.

I wouldn't take 2 Lts personally, just one with ex tenebris relic is good enough.
I'd also look at adding a couple of MM ATVs to accompany the Outriders, just to give you more AT punch.

You may want to run the Infiltrators as 4x5 (or just using 3x5) as they will be more effective that way.

Do you already have the Intercessors, or were you just planning on adding them? If not, I'd say invest elsewhere.

I'd also not take the las fusil on the Eliminators. Just keep them for anti-character duty.

So with what you have, I'd modify to..

Shrike
Phobos Lt with ex tenebris
Chaplain

3-4 units of 5 Infiltrators

2 x 5 vanguard vets with jump packs, claws.

3 Outriders
2 x 3 suppressors (would drop to one if picked up ATVs)

3 Eradicators (try to find 1 or 2 more on ebay)
2 x 3 Eliminators

What about your Bladeguard?

I've actually already got all the Intercessors both flavors, they are built but not yet painted.

I bought a box of eradicators and bladeguard... and in invictor tac suit. So now I have extras.

I'm really making it a point to avoid mixing primaris and tac marines not sure where could get the jumpacks... the claws wouldn't be difficult to scratch build.

A slightly cheaper (but still annoyingly expensive) way to get jumppacks for vanguard vets if you have tac available is a reiver box. It comes with ten of the "new style" jump packs, and they would make a perfectly reasonable vangaurd jump pack on a tac marine sized body.

Least I think so -- it would not get you the storm shields so important for the survival of vangaurd vets, and that would create a fairly distinctively "new" look for your vangaurd, I think.