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I wanted to run my interpretation of a couple of rules and stratagems past the collective wisdom of this forum:

1. stratagems can only be used once per phase (not once per turn).
2. Jump Pack units that arrive via Death From Above do so at the end of the movement phase.
3. A space marine Master of Sanctity (Mos) with the Wise Orator warlord trait can use the Commanding Oratory Stratagem for 1CP.
4. The Commanding Oratory stratagem can be used “at the start of any of your phases other than your Command phase”

So, with the above in mind, I think the following is possible:

1. A MoS jump pack chaplain and unit of vanguard veterans arrive via Death from Above.
2. In the psychic phase the MoS uses the Commanding Oratory Stratagem for 1CP to fire off Canticle of Hate (+2 to charge, additional 3” for pile in or consolidation moves)
3. In the charge phase spend 1 CP to fire off The Raven’s Blade (re-roll charges if that enemy unit was the only selected target of that charge). 2CP spent so far.
4. Also in the charge phase, the MoS uses the Commanding Oratory Stratagem again to fire off Litany of Hate (re-roll hits in melee). 3Cp spent so far.
5. Roll the charge with the +2 to bonus and re-roll. If successful fire off Hammer of Wrath stratagem (used at the end of the charge phase) for potential extra moral wounds. 4CP spent so far.
6. In the fight phase the MoS uses the Commanding Oratory Stratagem again to fire off Exhortation of Rage (+1 to wound). 5CP spent so far.

By way of example, if the above interpretation of the rules are correct you could drop in a MoS with 10 vanguard veterans with twin lightning claws. At worst, you spend 3CP and fail the charge. At best you spend 5CP and you then have 51 attacks at strength 4, AP-2, damage 1, re-rolling all hits and all wounds, with a +2 to wound resulting in:
* Against Gravis-type targets or vehicles, around 20 total (i.e. actual unsaved) damage
* Against knight type targets, around 13 total (i.e. actual unsaved) damage
* Against MEQ-type targets, around 25 total (i.e. actual unsaved) damage
* Against Mortarion around 10-11 total (i.e. actual unsaved damage) +
* Assuming targeting a strength 5 unit, on top of the above, around 2-3 mortal wounds +
* Whatever the MoS itself can bring to the party.

So my questions are:

1. Is my interpretation of the rules correct? and
2. Do you think the above would be worth 5CP?

Alright, found your problem. Commanding Oratory stratagem states:

Use this Stratagem at the start of any of your phases other than your Command phase. Select one ADEPTUS ASTARTES CHAPLAIN unit from your army that has not recited a litany this turn. That model can recite one litany that has not already been recited by a friendly model this turn. That litany is automatically inspiring (do not roll) and takes effect until the start of your next Command phase.

Select one ADEPTUS ASTARTES CHAPLAIN unit from your army that has not recited a litany this turn.

There you go.

So it works for the first, but you can only use it once per Chaplain by way of Litanies recited.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That was most likely to prevent people from making every Litany auto succeed rather than this type of use, but it's possible they considered this type of scenario when adding that limiter in.

Ah, thought I had missed something. Thanks for that

No problem. Always good to ask here and have multiple other sets of eyes scan the rules before playing rather than finding out during play.

 SergentSilver wrote:
No problem. Always good to ask here and have multiple other sets of eyes scan the rules before playing rather than finding out during play.

Or worse-finding out AFTER play and realizing you cheated!

 JNAProductions wrote:

 SergentSilver wrote:
No problem. Always good to ask here and have multiple other sets of eyes scan the rules before playing rather than finding out during play.

Or worse-finding out AFTER play and realizing you cheated!

Oh yeah, I hadn't even considered that since I was thinking it would result in an argument over the rules rather than the opponent just accepting a seemingly broken tactic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or the worst of all, you enter a tournament with your army based around this strategy and get through the first couple rounds without anyone questioning it, only to run into another Marines player who calls you out as a cheater. Then you get kicked out and possibly banned because you didn't realize you were cheating.

Just fill out all 3 HQ slots with Chaplains.

1 master of sanctity, 2 normal.

Can still have fun with the combos then.

khsofsos wrote:
Just fill out all 3 HQ slots with Chaplains.

1 master of sanctity, 2 normal.

Can still have fun with the combos then.

I mean, sounds fun, but it's definitely not competitive.

I was wrong.