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The current system on phased releases does more harm than good. Not only is it far harder to combat power creep with a phased release but it leaves some armies at the end of the current edition, making so they have to play most of the edition with a huge handicap. It seems to me that to write and release all/most factions at edition release seems to be the best bet. Not to mention that some factions that need a update most are put on the back burner for more popular factions (thousand sons).

Im guessing it is about money. Not sure why else they would adopt a phased release of codex. Your opinions?

Time management - they write a codex, release it then move onto the next one. To release them all at the same time they'd either have to stockpile completed ones (so they'd be older & newer ones in the batch) or have a much larger team (that then has nothing to do once they're released).

It's about money, both on costs and revenues. If you have to design and create codexes for EVERYONE simultaneously, then you need to spend a lot on putting together at the same time. This means either more people, or the same people for longer, and no new releases for a long time whilst you design it all. Then you need to actually print and store all these items before shipping it all out.

That's a big commitment on the cost end.

Once all released, the "newness" factor on sales only happens the 1 time. Lots of folks get really excited and there's a big sales bump as everyone buys their 1 new codex, maybe 2. A bunch of people also buy their new models. But a lot of folks can't afford to dump on everything new all at once, so they hold off. This cap's the potential revenues from this model of release. Over time, GW has to design everything again for the next big release, so again there'll be a long drought between releases. In this time period, new players will still come and go, but likely only at the same level as normal between releases.

So, in effect, you likely spend 1000% more money to release in this style, while at best only getting 300% the revenue from a normal release. That's likely doing this whole thing below cost - which is not a sustainable business model.

I'm assuming you're not talking about what they did with indexes in the beginning of 8th edition. The reason is most likely because they like tying most codex releases to models and they don't want to oversaturate the market (nor can most stores stock it) if they were to release all the codexes and their planned models at the same time. As a public company they need to hit certain targets every quarter and releasing all the codices at once for them would mean that they are significantly limited beyond campaign books or new factions for them to sustain revenue throughout the year besides the one big all-out codex release even if they released all the books at once and not the models.

Sales. People spend more money if you spread out releases. Makes business sense.

Also, working on all books at once probably wouldn't be possible due to warehouse and stock limits. It's easier to stockpile a limited amount of new releases, than everything at once. If they released everything on one weekend, there would be a lot of issues with stock not being able to keep up with demand. Limiting what is related helps prevent that. GW warehouses are only so big, and they only have a few world wide.

Also plenty of logistics reasons. Distribution couldn't handle that many codex releases and stores definitely don't have the kinds of funds needed to purchase that much product in a single month.

Money.

Table wrote:
The current system on phased releases does more harm than good. Not only is it far harder to combat power creep with a phased release but it leaves some armies at the end of the current edition, making so they have to play most of the edition with a huge handicap. It seems to me that to write and release all/most factions at edition release seems to be the best bet. Not to mention that some factions that need a update most are put on the back burner for more popular factions (thousand sons).

Im guessing it is about money. Not sure why else they would adopt a phased release of codex. Your opinions?

It isn't simple to write three dozen army books. They spent 8th edition finding themselves and finally landed on what looks to be the standard.

GW, however, does like to theme releases so the order may not be ideal. So, yes, money, but also good business acumen. Despite that most books do well so I only hope some of the weaker ones find their way to the top sooner.

Honestly - 40k sells no matter what they do. So all of their little shifty business practices can just be removed.

Want to make more money? Follow this strategy.
Release every codex right now (at the start of the eddition) then create a supplement exactly where you planned to release the offical codex in a delayed patern.

You will create twice the army buzz and everyone will be able to play their armies.

I think their idea is to bore you to hell so you buy a new army. Honestly...how many people can do that? Plenty of ways to do that also without making people really bored. So I think it really is just laziness at the top. If it were my company making my customers happy would be my top priority. If they wanted a product - I would facilitate them as quickly as I could and I think I'd make just as much money maybe more.

I think this is more a supply side problem than we realize though. They just can't keep up with the demand for the game.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think this is more a supply side problem than we realize though. They just can't keep up with the demand for the game.

Not during COVID. And not with this:

If they kept a given edition current longer, they could work on getting all of the major codex books ready to launch with the release of a new edition. At that point - they can begin working on the codexes for the next edition on one track, and supplements/campaigns/etc. on a rolling basis for the current track.

Right now, in most tournies, 8th ed dexes are placing well- sisters, harlies, etc.

Right now, I think we're 3 dexes behind schedule due to Covid + Brexit; DG was supposed to be December, DA and DE were supposed to be January, Admech + ? (Knights I think) was supposed to be February.

If not for manufacturing/ shipping delays, I think every dex might have been out by the end of this year.

Now if you want a mass dex release- 20 or so books dropping in a month, I think that's a pretty tall order. Certainly, if they did it, they'd sell fewer books overall (flooding the market) and there is no way to support any of that with model releases. Maybe you wanted indexes; I think that would have sucked, since it would mean buying the index first and then replacing it with an actual dex later; not only that, they would have represented a tremendous loss of bespoke content from the 8th ed dexes in order to cram 20 factions into five books.

So maybe 4 dexes/ month for 5 months? This is more attainable- theoretically, there may even be the possibility to support this pace with models if they restrict it to 1 model per faction, which is pretty much all they've managed to hit since the SM + Crons splash (though DG also got terrain, so that was technically 2 kits). Any more than that and you're cutting model releases.

To me, the issue isn't the pace of codex releases; it's the edition reset business model itself. From where we are now, I don't think the game needs changes big enough to justify a new edition. I hope 9th is the last; I'm not naive enough to expect that- it's just a wish.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I think this is more a supply side problem than we realize though. They just can't keep up with the demand for the game.

Not during COVID. And not with this:

HAHA - been seeing memes about this and now I finally get it!

PenitentJake wrote:
Right now, in most tournies, 8th ed dexes are placing well- sisters, harlies, etc.

Right now, I think we're 3 dexes behind schedule due to Covid + Brexit; DG was supposed to be December, DA and DE were supposed to be January, Admech + ? (Knights I think) was supposed to be February.

If not for manufacturing/ shipping delays, I think every dex might have been out by the end of this year.

Now if you want a mass dex release- 20 or so books dropping in a month, I think that's a pretty tall order. Certainly, if they did it, they'd sell fewer books overall (flooding the market) and there is no way to support any of that with model releases. Maybe you wanted indexes; I think that would have sucked, since it would mean buying the index first and then replacing it with an actual dex later; not only that, they would have represented a tremendous loss of bespoke content from the 8th ed dexes in order to cram 20 factions into five books.

So maybe 4 dexes/ month for 5 months? This is more attainable- theoretically, there may even be the possibility to support this pace with models if they restrict it to 1 model per faction, which is pretty much all they've managed to hit since the SM + Crons splash (though DG also got terrain, so that was technically 2 kits). Any more than that and you're cutting model releases.

If they decided to go all digital they could maybe pull it off, but people would quickly find they preferred this model ( even if they don't realize it ) as it keeps the buzz going. I prefer they take a bit more time and put the time and attention to all books like the ones we've seen so far.

They could easily do simultaneous codex releases. Just use digital. Model releases could still be spaced out -- just make datasheets free online like AoS.

It's easy peasy. Literally the only reason they don't do it is because they believe the current method maximizes profit. It's that simple.

I agree Daed- I think the new dexes are pretty darn good. They aren't 100% perfect- no dex ever can be. But I think they have a lot more to them than the 8th eds did.

Of course, I play Crusade almost exclusively, so my opinion comes through that lens. Also, so far, I only have SM + DW. Can't wait for DE tomorrow though- it looks pretty spectacular.

Quasistellar wrote:
Literally the only reason they don't do it is because they believe the current method maximizes profit. It's that simple.

It's maximum engagement too. Which in turn also means profit, but the goal isn't purely $$$$.

 Grimskul wrote:
I'm assuming you're not talking about what they did with indexes in the beginning of 8th edition.

One of the best decisions GW has made in a very long time. The beginning of 8th got me back into 40k after several years away primarily because GW released all of the main rules for all of the factions and models at the same time. Now with the bloat I like the new Apocalypse and older editions more.

Table wrote:
The current system on phased releases does more harm than good. Not only is it far harder to combat power creep with a phased release but it leaves some armies at the end of the current edition, making so they have to play most of the edition with a huge handicap. It seems to me that to write and release all/most factions at edition release seems to be the best bet. Not to mention that some factions that need a update most are put on the back burner for more popular factions (thousand sons).

Im guessing it is about money. Not sure why else they would adopt a phased release of codex. Your opinions?

Its money. If you did mass releases at edition start, lots of people would balk at buying all the books at once because theyd get a stark reminder of how overpriced codexes are. To give you an example, I play IG, AM, Knights, CSM, two flavors of SM who both have supplements, and orks. I also have enough SST bugs to run a Nid army. Thats roughly $400 in books, and thats before we even get into supplements. If you trickle them out, people can stomach it easier and you keep hype up for the "whales". If you bring back indexes like at the start of 8th, I'm paying 100-150 for that same rules content. From that lens, why would GW want to make half to a 1/3rd the money?

Also keep in mind if they tried to do releases ala the 8th ed indexes, youre going to get one page of fluff, 2 pages of art maybe, and overall just the bare meat and potatoes. While the old players dont care and prefer this, the books stop being a good introduction for new players and hooking them. Im sure a lot of us remember the first time we cracked our favorite army's codex and was overwhelmed with all the cool pictures and lore. Of course, newer players probably dont feel that way since GW shrinkwraps the books to keep you from flipping through them, so I guess its not a big deal.

I feel like GW could avoid both these issues by just releasing campaign books after the initial codex drop at the start of an edition, but that would involve them being willing to let the average player save money and we cant have that and of course now you just introduce a new form of creep.

Sadly GW's model is here to stay. I really wish theyd adopt the DZC model of initial book with all armies, then a campaign once in a while that adds new units to everyone, tweaks balance, and maybe adds a new army, but thats also a lot easier with 4-5 armies in a new game as opposed to GW's two dozen or so cidexes and countless sub factions

The indexes did serve an important purpose, but they were crazy dull compared to the codex.

Index = Order of our Martyred Lady fights exactly like Argent shroud and only marines get subfaction variety, just like every other edition that went before.

Codex = It only took us 30 years, but at last OoOML are as different from Argent Shroud as Dark Angels are from Space Wolves.

I've been waiting for across the board subfaction variety since '89. We're all now one step closer to being treated like Marines; we just need the models now.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
. Of course, newer players probably dont feel that way since GW shrinkwraps the books to keep you from flipping through them, so I guess its not a big deal.

I feel like GW could avoid both these issues by just releasing campaign books after the initial codex drop at the start of an edition, but that would involve them being willing to let the average player save money and we cant have that and of course now you just introduce a new form of creep.

Is that right, no store copy to be leafed through? Damn GW stores, you changed man.

PenitentJake wrote:
The indexes did serve an important purpose, but they were crazy dull compared to the codex.

And it was a blessing. The game was (briefly) about the gameplay, not sorting through piles of special rules trivia.

Quasistellar wrote:
They could easily do simultaneous codex releases. Just use digital. Model releases could still be spaced out -- just make datasheets free online like AoS.

It's easy peasy. Literally the only reason they don't do it is because they believe the current method maximizes profit. It's that simple.

I think you underestimate how many designers you'd need in order to simultaneously work on and then release codexes for all... 18? factions at the same time.

Nevermind how overwhelmed game stores would be at having to guess potential sales numbers for that many books at the same time.

Quasistellar wrote:
They could easily do simultaneous codex releases. Just use digital. Model releases could still be spaced out -- just make datasheets free online like AoS.

It's easy peasy. Literally the only reason they don't do it is because they believe the current method maximizes profit. It's that simple.

This sounds like either sarcasm, in which case well done, or sounds like someone saying "Solving world hunger is easy; everyone should just run a personal garden!" which is just displaying such a gross inadequacy of understanding any of the issues involved.

Voss wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
The indexes did serve an important purpose, but they were crazy dull compared to the codex.

And it was a blessing. The game was (briefly) about the gameplay, not sorting through piles of special rules trivia.

There were too many issues for it to be that simple and your take on the current state is not true ( in my experience ) despite the large number of rules.

Table wrote:
The current system on phased releases does more harm than good. Not only is it far harder to combat power creep with a phased release but it leaves some armies at the end of the current edition, making so they have to play most of the edition with a huge handicap. It seems to me that to write and release all/most factions at edition release seems to be the best bet. Not to mention that some factions that need a update most are put on the back burner for more popular factions (thousand sons).

Im guessing it is about money. Not sure why else they would adopt a phased release of codex. Your opinions?

Can you afford to buy every faction at once? No? There's your answer. They want more impulse army starts rather than competition.

Seeing gw isn't interested in balance to begin with but shifting　imbalance so people replace armies they don't care that old books gets left behind. It's what they want...

What you call problems is gw's marketing tool.

I am not asking for 24 codexes in one month, I agree that is next to impossible for GW. I am asking for DG, Drukhari, AdMech and whatever other matched play content and CA all be released December 2021 instead of throughout the year. GW can still do campaign rules, just ban neo-Specialist Detachments from Matched Play, the ones that are balanced can be accepted into Matched Play on a house-rule basis. Beta datasheets available for all new units on the Community Website and 40k App when their models are released.

beast_gts wrote:
Time management - they write a codex, release it then move onto the next one. To release them all at the same time they'd either have to stockpile completed ones (so they'd be older & newer ones in the batch) or have a much larger team (that then has nothing to do once they're released).

What's wrong with stockpiling? Okay, it costs money to stockpile actual books, but stockpiling PDFs? It means that all the PDFs can be polished together and all can live up to the same standard of balance, instead of one that is constantly changing across the year. Being the last codex before a big power spike, like BA before Necrons in 7th when the Decurion was introduced, has to suck.

 Yarium wrote:
It's about money, both on costs and revenues. If you have to design and create codexes for EVERYONE simultaneously, then you need to spend a lot on putting together at the same time. This means either more people, or the same people for longer, and no new releases for a long time whilst you design it all. Then you need to actually print and store all these items before shipping it all out.

Getting bigger deliveries of books is cheaper from what I understand. What's the problem with a matched play content drought? If the game is great then why would you want to change it every 3 months instead of every 12 months? Does constantly changing a bad game make it better? At best it is a distraction from how bad the game is and it lets GW apologists do their "next codex will magically balance the entire game" BS.

GW does not just sell books, there is no revenue drought, it would only be matched play books that have a drought. The meta would evolve and after 6 months people will discover "hey units XYZ are better than units ABC, let's all buy new models, new codexes, etc. etc." New models are going to get released, their beta rules are probably OP so that'll sell like hotcakes.

Also keep in mind if they tried to do releases ala the 8th ed indexes, youre going to get one page of fluff, 2 pages of art maybe, and overall just the bare meat and potatoes. While the old players dont care and prefer this, the books stop being a good introduction for new players and hooking them.

GW could have kept the Index model and supplemented with collector's guides containing crusade rules, lore, art, dioramas, painting, modelling, terrain-making tutorials and their release could be accompanied by White Dwarf campaign reports using new crusade rules. Some things should not be done piecemeal, like giving Astartes an extra wound, updating flamer range, updating the melta ability, Imperium-weapon profiles, giving everyone at least one Relic and Chapter Tactic, giving units Obsec, giving everyone faction-Objectives.

The codexes serve much more than just matched play.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
Literally the only reason they don't do it is because they believe the current method maximizes profit. It's that simple.

It's maximum engagement too. Which in turn also means profit, but the goal isn't purely $$$$.

Money is their one and only goal. They stagger releases to make more money, for the reasons already stated. It is a hype based model, not a “fair” model or a “consumer friendly” one.

They do this because they can and they are a profit maximizing public company owned by a bunch of investment funds.

Logistics is an issue, a really big issue, when it comes to releasing products. Releasing 24 Codexes at once means each step of the process from rules, lore, typesetting, editing, printing, and distribution has to be done concurrently.

For development, we are talking either more staff to do the work or a lot of time to get the work done. I don't think most players will be happy with a yearly release schedule for the game or an increase in cost to pay for the staff to do the work.

Then there is the production issue. If they want to send out all 24 Codexes at the same time, they have to either pay handsomely for producing them all in a short period of time or tie up substantial financial resources in warehousing product while they wait for a longer production time to get everything ready for the mass release.

So releasing all codexes at once means GW has to spend a whole lot more money to get a release completed before they get any income from that expenditure. Do you know who does that in gaming? Nobody. Not GW. Not Privateer Press. Not Covus Belli. Not CMON. Not Wizards of the Coast. Everybody who releases any game of any substantial scale does it in phased releases.

And then there is the matter of customer engagement. Gamers are fickle bunch. No one seems to be happy with a one off release. They want updates, expansions, or additions to their game. How is GW supposed to keep players engaged once they all have their brand new codexes? GW has already learned that putting rules in a codex without models on the near horizon is giving their competitors an opportunity to swoop in and make their own models. And I there are always complaints whenever GW puts out supplemental material (why weren't these rules in my codex?). The market demands regular content to keep the customers engaged. Given GWs successful use of the current roll-out scheme, why would they spend more money to less effect?