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Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Good morning gang,

Just had a brief look over the new lumineth warscrolls. Besides being excited to get some more models for this army, the rules they have look pretty strong already. Of course, their power will be decided once there's point values attached to them and we can see some new Allegiance abilities in Broken Realms Teclis...

First thoughts?

Scinari Calligrave... Meh? Point value had better be cheap, or else this gets the bench.
Scinari Loreseeker. Hide yo heroes, or suffer dire consequences. I can see this model causing immense levels of salt for unprepared foes, and forcing weird deployments that may hinder the enemy on later turns, if they really wrap and protect their heroes well. If they do protect their heroes well, just dump him on an objective. He's done his job if the enemy is well-wrapped and in a weird spot in their deployment, IMO.
Lord Reagent/Lyrior. Looking solid, nice signature spell. If you get it off on a vanari wall, you can use the actual vanari models to cast their other spells. Pretty nice
Bannerblade. Looking solid, have to keep it alive until later rounds, save the nuke/debuff for when it really matters. Could be good.
Ellania and Ellathor, Eclipsian Warsages. Looking pretty good. More CP for Lumineth is always a good thing, and Altairi rule getting to later rounds will be nasty.

Hurakan/Severith, Spirit of the Wind. Alpha strike galore. Looks really fun and could be very annoying to deal with.
Hurakan Windmage. Nice signature spell, solid defense.

Starshard Ballistas look solid. I can't say I'm a fan of the wording on the rules for the blinding bolt. You use it to protect an offensive, instead of defensively for the next turn.
Worried for Bladelords, no Sunmetal weapons rule, unless it turns in to an Allegiance ability... but with it being on various new heroes warscrolls I doubt it will be. Still getting them cause they're cool as heck.
Hurakan Windchargers. I'm not interested in them, but they seem solid enough.

Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






To quote myself from news & rumors:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think the regular wind spirit is tricky, but can be dealt with. My bigger concern is that armies with shooting will just... kill it. Like Eltharion it is a model that tends to be extremely powerful or decidedly poor based on matchup.

The special character version I think may be a problem, because he has enough extra stuff going on for it to be very difficult to play around, again unless the enemy army shoots well in which case he'll just die. Movement shenanigans can help, but eventually there is only going to be so much board space left to run to.

Looking across the new releases I keep thinking that the likes of Tzeentch, KO, and Seraphon are just going to obliterate them. It reinforces my initial perception that while they have a lot of cool tricks they just aren't that overpowered because they require proper tactical context to work. The raw power that some armies can unleash is a far bigger balance issue, and one we have already been dealing with.

Plus, Teclis & Sentinels are already the biggest cheese of the army and I don't see anything in the new releases that competes.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would like to add that seeing a number of abilities keyed off the battle round is really cool. It works great as a self-balancing mechanic because it prevents all of these 1/battle abilities from simply being blown as one load in an alpha strike. Good idea and implementation on GW's part.

Will reserve further opinion until I can get the whole context, but right now I am seeing a lot of cool, fun stuff and only a few things that could be problematic. It does reinforce Lumineth as being a complex army to play, and play against. But I feel their presentation has always been upfront about that, and they can be built in a more straightforward manner for those who don't want a force quite so finesse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/27 18:09:15


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






Seeing on Twitter that quite a few people think this release is extremely powerful. Broken even. People thinking about stepping away from the game.

I hope that's the usual overreaction. I don't have any Lumineth players nearby but diminishing the AoS community is never a good thing!

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Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Honestly people say that over every release.

The whole "I'm walking away" tends to come from the same type of people.

1) Those who hope that their great proclamation will spark a huge leaving and make GW "improve" the rules to keep them

2) Those who are already or who have already left and are mostly using it to mask their leaving with an excuse.



In general armies are either "so OP its silly" or "So underpowered they'll never be used" in previews. People often jump very fast on ideas and get panicked.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Weird warhammer players overreacting? No, that never happens.

But yeah, I don't see anything too excessive, except for the wind spirit in certain matchups. Nothing that's really straightforward to use, lots of little tricks to pull. In particular, I'm really interested in the mental game that the Loreseeker can force.

Ninth, what did you think would be potentially problematic? Or was that line in your last little paragraph relating to Wind spirits?

Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Thing is a lot of the faction terrains tend to be in your own deployment area. Ossiarchs are perhaps worse off because theirs benefits being forward and is also utterly huge and hard to hide. Skaven too with their gnaw holes might find it a pain.

In the end though if that unit is charging forward to reach your terrain early then its also putting itself at a high risk



I could see potentially its disruption effect being lessened with an errata/FAQ/Patch update in the future based on playtesting. Eg it might just from "entire game" to a select number of turns (1,2,3 etc)

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Thadin wrote:
Weird warhammer players overreacting? No, that never happens.

But yeah, I don't see anything too excessive, except for the wind spirit in certain matchups. Nothing that's really straightforward to use, lots of little tricks to pull. In particular, I'm really interested in the mental game that the Loreseeker can force.

Ninth, what did you think would be potentially problematic? Or was that line in your last little paragraph relating to Wind spirits?
It was referring to them, others I don't want to pass judgement on just yet because I don't have the full context of the new book to look through (yet).

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Rihgu wrote:
Seeing on Twitter that quite a few people think this release is extremely powerful. Broken even. People thinking about stepping away from the game.

I hope that's the usual overreaction. I don't have any Lumineth players nearby but diminishing the AoS community is never a good thing!


New release overreaction.

Thing is these things aren't free. They cost points. You can't just add them into existing army and get buffs without giving up. Take the most competive lumineth list now. 1-2 calthallar, 40 pikes, 70-80 sentinel, battalion, spell portal. Add anything from this and either you drop battalion(going to lot more than 1-2 drops which is very bad) and pikes or you drop sentinels. Aka the best thing lumineth have.

Anything you add in basically forces you to give up on good stuff.

If you have been playing suboptimally with teclis you have to give up on him or archers pretty much completely if you want new stuff...

Only real issue can be the wind spirit on certain matchups. For example gloomspite have pretty much no way whatsoever to kill it unless lumineth ALLOWS it. But then again can it do enough to make up for 300 pts? Shooting damage for example averages less than 4 wounds for characters(assuming gets no save). People have complained it will assasinate all support characters at ease. Less than 4 wounds in a turn with shooting? 20 sentinels for 20 pts less will do 6-7 without spell support(which will increase it to tad over 9 mw in average). And doesn't care if you have 0 or -10 to hit unlike this guy. And of course the armies currently dominating tournaments will simply one shot the 300 pts spirit and be done with it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/28 08:14:14


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






The tourney meta is dominated by shooting right now, meaning a lot of things that would be a concern are impotent because they just die. But most people and most games aren't tournaments, and most of AoS is quite far from heavy shooting builds. Once that skew is removed from the picture Teclis is even stronger than the sentinels, wimdy boi is near unkillable, and neither is any fun to play against.

Which is a shame because they overshadow a lot of really cool, fun, and reasonable elements of the army. Which vastly out number the cheese, but we all know what players gravitate towards.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





What's with fixation on the handicap that's teclis. It's cool but costs you victory points. It's handicap. Noob trap. Noobs complain, good players just shrug and get more vp's.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/28 15:59:30


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
World-Weary Pathfinder





Wiltshire, UK

The only question that pops up in my mind is that the magic Lore of Hysh currently says it’s for Teclis, Vanari wizards and Cathallars, not ‘Scinari wizards’. Would that mean the Calligrave and Loreseeker can’t use the Lore of Hysh?

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Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






There will likely be changes to the lore's wordings.

Dug through a review;

Starshard Ballistas - 100pts - Min 1/Max 1 per unit
Ellaniia and Ellathor - 260pts
Hurakan Windage - 120pts
Lyrior - 210
Scinari Calligrave - 100pts
Scinari Loreseeker - 160pts
Sevireth, Lord of wind - 300pts
Bannerblade - 110pts
Lord Regent - 150pts
Spirit of Wind - 250pts
Windchargers - 130pts - Min5/Max15 per unit
Bladelords - 120pts - Min5/Max 15 per unit

Everything for the new rules is up on various places on the internet by now, through reviews or sneak peak batreps.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/29 15:20:48


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Hm, windmage and windchargers seem a little cheap for such high mobility. Regent I have my eye on as well, he can fight and he is exceptionally good at buffing. Overall though, seems like a pretty good set of points. Very refreshing following the Slaanesh release.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Whoops, tried to sneak an edit in before people posted. Didn't make it.

Bladelords get to be Battleline, 1 for every Scinari hero. Windchargers get to be battleline in a Helon Grand city army.

Point difference between Lord Regent and Lyrior seems to be not worth it in the slightest, the default being more cost effective.

Loreseeker has a nice cost for what it can do IMO. Nothing seems too out there for cost, except Lyrior at my first glance. Windchargers seem low too, especially when comparing them to Dawnriders.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/29 15:21:42


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Hm, windmage and windchargers seem a little cheap for such high mobility. Regent I have my eye on as well, he can fight and he is exceptionally good at buffing. Overall though, seems like a pretty good set of points. Very refreshing following the Slaanesh release.

Mobility's high but the Windmage and Chargers basically require one another to function and the survivability just ain't there against anything but melee IMO.

Lyrior is basically an autotake for anyone running Ymetrica but no Teclis, since he has the "Voice of Tyrion" granting a CP on a 2+ during each of your Hero Phases. Plus he gets the lance's shooting attack.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/29 15:27:13


 
   
 
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