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Date for the pledge manager opening is now out. June 25th.

A bit later than expected but that's a good thing, we'll be able to see more finished paint schemes.

Just the Caves part of the AMA

- Post campaign survey due next week
- A few new renders see below.
- Breakdown of what themes people pledged for - painted/unpainted is about an equal split with painted being a little ahead.
- Rocky Cave is by far the most popular with BotB and it's subthemes being only a quarter of the Rocky Caves numbers. I know people complained about the lack of BotB SG but the numbers back up it's lack of popularity. Spiders nest is the most popular subtheme!
- BotB is tooled 2 sprues shown off details look good

I wonder if the Spiders Nest popularity was down to the bridges since they help "pad out" your core sets on the tabletop to create multiple, smaller caves that still take up most of a 3x3 table. If so, they might see those numbers change in the face of so many stone bridge pieces added to the stretch goals.

"I know people complained about the lack of BotB SG but the numbers back up it's lack of popularity."

Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy really. They didn't make any stuff for it, and it's a theme where regular chests and tables look out of place. So now I'm left with empty rooms with no matching scatter.

It was always going to be niche, but the complete lack of any support hurt it. Some cool stuff that would work for tyranid fans might have pumped the numbers a bit.

 Siygess wrote:
I wonder if the Spiders Nest popularity was down to the bridges since they help "pad out" your core sets on the tabletop to create multiple, smaller caves that still take up most of a 3x3 table. If so, they might see those numbers change in the face of so many stone bridge pieces added to the stretch goals.

I dunno the bridges are the only bits of spider lair I hate but the cobwebbed tiles are fantastic and among the best designs to blend naturally into the base theme.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
"I know people complained about the lack of BotB SG but the numbers back up it's lack of popularity."

Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy really. They didn't make any stuff for it, and it's a theme where regular chests and tables look out of place. So now I'm left with empty rooms with no matching scatter.

It was always going to be niche, but the complete lack of any support hurt it. Some cool stuff that would work for tyranid fans might have pumped the numbers a bit.

What hurt it for me was what seemed like confusion over what it wanted to be. The text (and name) described it as the Belly of the Beast but there sure seemed like a lot of rock in the beasts belly. I think if the core set was more expressly 'fleshy' then perhaps it would have performed better. For instance I'm in for the Maw and Carnage track sub themes, but haven't taken the core BotB set. That's because but those sub themes are distinctly 'flesh'.

I do think they should have leaned a bit more into the 'fungal' accessories like the arch, as those could be painted as flesh to go with the BotB theme if you wanted that, or as fungus for the rocky caves.

Belly also suffered from little exposure, they had no prismacast samples of it, etc. and its premier room was just a corridor with a non traverseble large intestine taking up half the floor space. I honestly might get a Belly core once samples are up, the few hand painted panels they showed were wicked.

Here’s some BotB pics from the unpainted sprue. It’s 1 of my 3 choices along with the maw as I can see it being used as a demon world terrain and gives me very Doom Eternal Super Gore Nest vibes.

Those walls are so great. The floors sadly have that technical limitation that edges need to be flat and solid to connect properly.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
"I know people complained about the lack of BotB SG but the numbers back up it's lack of popularity."

Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy really. They didn't make any stuff for it, and it's a theme where regular chests and tables look out of place. So now I'm left with empty rooms with no matching scatter.

It was always going to be niche, but the complete lack of any support hurt it. Some cool stuff that would work for tyranid fans might have pumped the numbers a bit.

Not quite, the sales of all of the sets perfectly line up with the survey we did before the campaign launched. Demonic Caves has 50% of the popularity of the Rocky Caves, while BotB has 25% of the popularity of the Rocky Caves. According to what I've been told, having a more niche set is fine if those people wouldn't back otherwise.

Szymon_Archon wrote:

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:
"I know people complained about the lack of BotB SG but the numbers back up it's lack of popularity."

Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy really. They didn't make any stuff for it, and it's a theme where regular chests and tables look out of place. So now I'm left with empty rooms with no matching scatter.

It was always going to be niche, but the complete lack of any support hurt it. Some cool stuff that would work for tyranid fans might have pumped the numbers a bit.

Not quite, the sales of all of the sets perfectly line up with the survey we did before the campaign launched. Demonic Caves has 50% of the popularity of the Rocky Caves, while BotB has 25% of the popularity of the Rocky Caves. According to what I've been told, having a more niche set is fine if those people wouldn't back otherwise.

Thanks for the info. I am grateful to get a weird option that otherwise probably wouldn't have been commercially viable. Seeing the pre-paints also really sold me on going all in on pre-painted, as it looked like it would be more time consuming than normal caves.

Maybe some bio-mechanical or gooey stuff can sneak into later campaigns.

So I know everyone is still riding the high of new Dungeons and Lasers but... is it almost time to Master the Universe?

I've been practicing my TV-G insults!

 Jack Flask wrote:
So I know everyone is still riding the high of new Dungeons and Lasers but... is it almost time to Master the Universe?

I've been practicing my TV-G insults!

15th of May according to the AMA, Gamefound campaign in USD, King Hiss and Lady Slither renders were shown.

They got the USA, Canada, Australia... license but I suspect it still won't be accessible to the more obscure parts of Europe.

@Szymon_Archon - will ettin have some options, like different weapons (in right hand too), both hands bare etc.?

 Shadow Walker wrote:
@Szymon_Archon - will ettin have some options, like different weapons (in right hand too), both hands bare etc.?

According to what I've been told he'll have different assembly options, which includes the possibility of assembling him with 1 head. As for additional weapons, I believe that's something that's still up for discussion although I don't see why we wouldn't add some optional parts like that


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
They got the USA, Canada, Australia... license but I suspect it still won't be accessible to the more obscure parts of Europe.

I remember someone being angry that we ship to the Vatican but not Eastern Europe... As if the Pope is gonna play MOTU: Battleground

Szymon_Archon wrote:

 Shadow Walker wrote:
@Szymon_Archon - will ettin have some options, like different weapons (in right hand too), both hands bare etc.?

According to what I've been told he'll have different assembly options, which includes the possibility of assembling him with 1 head. As for additional weapons, I believe that's something that's still up for discussion although I don't see why we wouldn't add some optional parts like that

One head means he would double as ''normal'' giant, which is awesome, and a proper step from the Pepe. Additional hand options so he is not exclusively left handed like Pepe would be great. Basically make him as versatile as GW Mancrusher, and he will sell like a hot cake.

@Szymon_Archon:

So D&L7 will be traditional D&D and other generic fantasy miniatures?

Here's my suggestion list:

* Enough miniatures for the D&D starter sets, Pathfinder starter sets, and their most popular modules. Eventually release retail sets that a hobby gamer can "one stop shop" buy instead of the usual hunting down of mini's. Maybe include any difficult-to-find terrain for the modules (eg. I think the Pathfinder Beginner Box adventure has a balance scale).

* PC's with different bits. Shouldn't be difficult for Archon. Of course, what would be a challenge would be magnets.

* Partner with various companies with popular rulesets but no extensive miniature lines (eg. Song of Blades and Heroes, Five Leagues from the Borderlands) to release starter sets for their games.

* Add "sell by the sprue" to Archon's selling model. This also means at least some sprues need to be themed with similar models (eg. wolves, goblins, orcs) rather than the "what fits on the sprue" approach Archon has for several of its sets. This would open up Archon more for hobby gamers who wish to create armies for various games (eg. Kings of War). Review army lists of various army games before planning the sprue (eg. how many of which models are in a typical regimen).

* Personally, although it's outside the scope of this campaign, I'd like 3D terrain bits for Gloomhaven, one of the most popular boardgame dungeoncrawlers. These pieces would be 1" or 2" in length, and require a flat top so other mini's can be placed on top of them (eg. flying units flying over terrain).

It appears I will be taking a bit more of an active role in this campaign (at least from what I've seen so far, but we haven't begun official work on it yet), but these are all things that I have personally been wanting for some time.

More specifically:

- PC's of various races with multiparts. They'll be split on the sprue. During the campaign you'll get a copy of the entire sprue, but in retail the sprues will be split in 4/6 parts so we're able to sell 1 individual miniature.

- Most definitely selling by the sprue. Each sprue must have a concrete theme that can be included in the set it's being sold in for the campaign, but also has the possibility of being taken out and added to a different set.

- I want "Encounter Packs" to be a thing - a set of miniatures that also includes some scatter terrain, and an optional paper mat depending on the set. The RPG supplement will contain suggestions on how to assemble the minis and how to implement it into your game.

- Attracting wargamers would be great, and that's what I would be aiming for with multipart minis. I want them to be similar to the ones from Oathmark/Frostgrave in terms of choice, but I really think that we can do an even better job. Of course, not every set will be multipart, as dynamic and interesting poses are good for more important looking characters.

Yes Frostgrave style sets are what we here wargamers are waiting for

Hero sets, animal sets, various enemies sets. All with options and proper numbers.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
Hero sets, animal sets, various enemies sets. All with options and proper numbers.

Of course, I have all of that written up on my personal document

Animal sets won't be fully multipart, but I do think they should contain some additional assembly options.

Szymon_Archon wrote:


Animal sets won't be fully multipart, but I do think they should contain some additional assembly options.

Great to hear! As to terrain included in sets, please consider some ruins and some bushes.

I know that it's probably mostly Wargamers here, but I would like the miniature sets to include scatter terrain that would be relevant to that particular miniature set. What does everyone here feel about that?

Szymon_Archon wrote:
I know that it's probably mostly Wargamers here, but I would like the miniature sets to include scatter terrain that would be relevant to that particular miniature set. What does everyone here feel about that?

Wargamers need terrain too Also wargames do not mean mass battles exclusively so other wargames would require some scatter terrain like bushes, fences, trunks etc. Many here play some mix of wargame and RPG like Rangers of Shadow Deep etc., which would benefit from some nice scatter terrain packs.

Sure, I was just curious because depending on the system you're using, you won't need the scatter terrain and I'm trying to judge how many are for or against. Sorry if the stuff I'm saying seems obvious, I really want to make sure that I'm hitting all the points of what people are looking for the most, with concrete stats so I'm not just giving my feelings (even though I think I'm correct :p ).

Szymon_Archon wrote:
It appears I will be taking a bit more of an active role in this campaign (at least from what I've seen so far, but we haven't begun official work on it yet), but these are all things that I have personally been wanting for some time.

More specifically:

- PC's of various races with multiparts. They'll be split on the sprue. During the campaign you'll get a copy of the entire sprue, but in retail the sprues will be split in 4/6 parts so we're able to sell 1 individual miniature.

- Most definitely selling by the sprue. Each sprue must have a concrete theme that can be included in the set it's being sold in for the campaign, but also has the possibility of being taken out and added to a different set.

- I want "Encounter Packs" to be a thing - a set of miniatures that also includes some scatter terrain, and an optional paper mat depending on the set. The RPG supplement will contain suggestions on how to assemble the minis and how to implement it into your game.

- Attracting wargamers would be great, and that's what I would be aiming for with multipart minis. I want them to be similar to the ones from Oathmark/Frostgrave in terms of choice, but I really think that we can do an even better job. Of course, not every set will be multipart, as dynamic and interesting poses are good for more important looking characters.

All of these sound great to me! Especially the encounter packs; themed terrain & complementing models are exactly what I'm looking for.

Szymon_Archon wrote:
I know that it's probably mostly Wargamers here, but I would like the miniature sets to include scatter terrain that would be relevant to that particular miniature set. What does everyone here feel about that?

Solid for D&D unique sprue enemy packs, less solid for Frostgrave regiment type boxes where you might get 4 copies of a sprue.

If you include options for enemies then please remember that they should be available to all minis in the kit = if goblins have options for bows or spears then include enough of them to arm the entire squad in either option.