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So I think I made a big nono.

I usually use some UV resisitant gloss enamel, topped with some regular gloss clear enamel and some matte enamel on top of that to bring it back down (I know I know I should probably just not use so many different kinds of enamel...) but when I bought some at home depot last time I got this 2x cover clear gloss but it doesn't say enamel... Normally I use the other stuff pictured.

When I applied the Matte Clear enamel it didn't bring down the gloss factor as much, in fact I did multiple coats and it's still not what I would call "matte"

Am I better off just admitting defeat and living with the gloss or is it safe to apply a few more layers of matte enamel to get that proper finish?

Both of those are gloss. If you want a matte finish, I believe Rustoleum calls it 'satin' now.

 MDSW wrote:
Both of those are gloss. If you want a matte finish, I believe Rustoleum calls it 'satin' now.

Nonono those are just to illustrate how I used the 2x gloss whatever instead of gloss enamel and now spraying a couple coats of matte clear enamel hasn't produced the desired "matteness" and I'm warry of building up too much of these clear coats trying to get a matte finish.

I suspect it's because I used the 2x coverage crap that's causing the issue but I'm not sure, I've sprayed the minis with a couple layers of matte finish and they're still glossy.

Should I just admit defeat or do you think it's safe to spray more matte enamel?

I can't recall which way round it was but a person who knows what he's talking about once stated on a youtube video that it's harder to go from gloss to matte than it is the other way round.

It could have been the other way round though, i.e. matte to gloss.

I think you'll have to concede defeat or keep applying the matte varnish.

 Rob Lee wrote:
I can't recall which way round it was but a person who knows what he's talking about once stated on a youtube video that it's harder to go from gloss to matte than it is the other way round.

It could have been the other way round though, i.e. matte to gloss.

I think you'll have to concede defeat or keep applying the matte varnish.

GAAAhh I'm reluctant to do so, but man it's lookin grim. They don't look "bad" just, not what I want currently.

I realized I made another bonehead move and didn't even show you the minis.

The guy with the blight launcher was the glossiest and this is after 4 seperate coats of matte.

I'm thinking it's hopeless.

(plagueburst crawler for reference of what my normal finish looks like.)

I wouldn't say it's hopeless. They don't look all that shiny to me, they look like they've got a satin clear coat.

I'd just carry on putting down light coats. Might take a while but you'll get somewhere with it. And as long as you don't flood the model with varnish you shouldn't get any "disastrous" results.

Rustoleum makes a clear called "dead flat". I haven't tested it yet.

My go-to matte clear is Testor's Dullcote. It's the flattest rattle can clear I've used to date (again, not having tried the new one from Rustoleum..too much humidity so not going to clear).

I've had similar experience with Rustoleum "matte" and it wasn't as flat as I had hoped. If you have a good matte clear (Dullcote or most airbrush mattes are super flat as well) doing a gloss coat over a model isn't going to hurt. Washes actually work the best if you gloss the model first, let it dry and then wash. Less chance of the wash pooling in bad spots or creating fish eyes.

I'd just try a different brand of clear. Try the "dead flat". It's probably flatter than "matte" or try an army painter or Testors flat.

Thing about clears is there is no such as too many coats.

Most matte varnish isn't all that dull. I second the recommendation to use Dullcote.

In the future, there is literally no reason to use gloss and then matte. The idea that gloss is more durable is a myth.

^^

The only reason to clear is to help with decals. The glossier the surface the better but yeah, gloss is presumed to be more durable because it FEELS like a hard shell.

A good quality clear, regardless of finish, is going to be durable as hell and should never peel, flake, or brush off.

Test out the matte paint on something you haven't already glossed, maybe that's just what the matte is like and if you need a duller finish you need to try a different product.

I can't say I've ever had a problem with matte varnish over a gloss, maybe there's some incompatibility with the paints you're using though?

 catbarf wrote:
Most matte varnish isn't all that dull. I second the recommendation to use Dullcote.

In the future, there is literally no reason to use gloss and then matte. The idea that gloss is more durable is a myth.

Why do you think it's a myth? I've tested it for a couple of different brands and the gloss is harder to damage with a fingernail than the matte.

That said, I wouldn't bother glossing than matting if it were only for the sake of strength, since they're both pretty tough, just gloss is tougher.

The reason to use a gloss first is that some weathering techniques and decals are easier to apply over a gloss finish.

jivardi wrote:
Rustoleum makes a clear called "dead flat". I haven't tested it yet.

My go-to matte clear is Testor's Dullcote. It's the flattest rattle can clear I've used to date (again, not having tried the new one from Rustoleum..too much humidity so not going to clear).

Thing about clears is there is no such as too many coats.

Hmm I would like to try it.

You think I can get them matte with enough thin coats?

Alright I'll give it a shot.

You don't need to do multiple thin coats with clear like you do with primer.

You don't want it so heavy it runs but it can be a wet coat. Multiple thin coats doesn't do anything to improve the outcome.

Just don't use any gloss is my advice for the future.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Just don't use any gloss is my advice for the future.

Yeah I feel like my normal way would've worked fine it's just that 2x cover Gloss clear, that stuff just won't quit.

But you're right, I should just stop introducing the risk.

A thing about the 2x Rustoleum stuff - I haven't used the clear stuff, but the paints in that range take a long time to fully cure. They touch dry fairly quickly, but remain slightly tacky for a long while. If it's not fully cured when you spray the 'matte' coat on top, it could be bleeding into the matte layer and either making it more shiny, or stopping it from curing properly.

There's also the thing that was mentioned up a ways - 'matte' doesn't mean the same thing as 'flat', and often has a fair amount of gloss to it. If you want a completely flat finish, you need a flat sealer instead, like Dullcoat or similar.

And I would second the suggestion to just stop using gloss sealer. I rarely varnish my models at all, because I dislike the way it changes colours and highlights. Even Dullcoat, which is easily the best sealer I've used to date, makes everything slightly darker and subdues higlights a fraction. Unless you're really rough with your minis, it's just not necessary on anything other than (maybe) metal minis.

 insaniak wrote:
A thing about the 2x Rustoleum stuff - I haven't used the clear stuff, but the paints in that range take a long time to fully cure. They touch dry fairly quickly, but remain slightly tacky for a long while. If it's not fully cured when you spray the 'matte' coat on top, it could be bleeding into the matte layer and either making it more shiny, or stopping it from curing properly.

Also in general glosses from the same range take longer to cure than matte paints/varnishes.

jivardi wrote:
Rustoleum makes a clear called "dead flat". I haven't tested it yet.

My go-to matte clear is Testor's Dullcote. It's the flattest rattle can clear I've used to date (again, not having tried the new one from Rustoleum..too much humidity so not going to clear).

Thing about clears is there is no such as too many coats.

ALl I can find online is testors spray laquer clear coat, is that what you mean?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Testors-Spray-Paint-Glosscote-Clear-3-oz/22056098

That listing is confusing - it appears to be for a single can of the glosscoat, but they've pictured both the gloss and dullcoat cans.

The one with the blue label is the one you want. They changed the label a few years back to just call it 'Spray Lacquer' but everyone kept calling it Dullcoat.

Scratch that... looks like with the current labeling, the gloss has a clear lid, and the dullcoat has a frosted lid. Other than that, the cans appear to be identical.

So that Walmart listing is for the gloss, and they just show both the old and new can style, for some reason. You're looking for the one with the frosted lid.

So have you got any further with applying coats of what you have or have you given up?

Insaniak has it right.

The frosted cap is the Dullcote.

As soon as it stops raining here (day 5 of rain) I can do some tests with the Rustoleum Dead Flat. If it's as flat as Dullcote I have a new clear. If not, Dullcote it is.

jivardi wrote:Insaniak has it right.

The frosted cap is the Dullcote.

As soon as it stops raining here (day 5 of rain) I can do some tests with the Rustoleum Dead Flat. If it's as flat as Dullcote I have a new clear. If not, Dullcote it is.

insaniak wrote:That listing is confusing - it appears to be for a single can of the glosscoat, but they've pictured both the gloss and dullcoat cans.

The one with the blue label is the one you want. They changed the label a few years back to just call it 'Spray Lacquer' but everyone kept calling it Dullcoat.

Scratch that... looks like with the current labeling, the gloss has a clear lid, and the dullcoat has a frosted lid. Other than that, the cans appear to be identical.

So that Walmart listing is for the gloss, and they just show both the old and new can style, for some reason. You're looking for the one with the frosted lid.

RIght on guys thanks for the help.

I went to Michaels and Walmart and couldn't find it, ordering it online seems to be a bit of a gamble.

I went to my local hobby shop and they really helped me out, were out of the testors but had some Tamiya Flat Clear spray.

Worked like a charm.

In the future, if anyone feels like they MUST use gloss undercoats, I would stay away from the Rustoleam 2x Cover Gloss Clear.

I personally will be avoiding gloss in the future.

The only reason to gloss is for decal placement and for that a brushable gloss such as Citadel 'ardcoat will do just fine.

Apparently a gloss coat makes acrylic washes flow better but if you add a single drop (ONE drop is all you need) to a 1oz jar of wash it does plenty to break the surface tension and allows it to flow smoother. Or just pay lots of money for Flo-aid which is basically watery soap that doesn't suds up when stirring or shaking.