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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

As I'm sat flicking through the movie channels, wondering what was the last new movie I saw that wasn't awful, there's an endless parade of reboots, sequels, prequels, based on a book films without a worthwhile original idea among them. Some of these films are actually okay whilst most of them just exploit a brand name in the hopes that you'll pay attention. The worst offenders throw up nostalgia bait in the hopes that you'll forget how dire the film is while your brain happily digests the not so clever reference to a rosier past. Is it just me who sees the bait and can't help but recoil from it? So often the bait is thrown in with no respect for what's currently happening with the plot, doesn't fit with the current mood or direction of the script and feels like someone's yanked the handbrake on proceedings. What's been the best and worst use of nostalgia baiting you've seen in cinema and can nostalgia ever be used as a force for good?
I've recently seen that they're re-using Alfred Molina in the next Spider-Man movie, digitally de-aging him, and I can't help but wonder what the point is. It seems like a lot of effort, with huge potential pitfalls, just for the sake of saying "Hey, we got the guy who you really liked last time to play Doc Ock again. You gonna come see the movie now?".

Worst:
Star Wars: The Force Awakens.
There's some horrible nostalgia nonsense through all the later Star Wars movies, pebble dashed with all the subtlety and grace of a visit to the toilet after a night of Dhal curry and lager. Solo gets a dis-honourable mention but TFA takes the cake. Scene after scene of "remember how much you enjoyed this in the original trilogy". Yeah, I do remember, so I'm gonna stop watching this crap and go and watch that instead.

Best:
Transformers: Bumblebee
It's not difficult to construct an argument for how awful the Michael Bay Transformer movies are, making the franchise an easy choice to avoid. So when your favourite movie critics are saying that Bumblebee is actually worth watching then I'll give it a shot. Seldom does a movie fill you with nothing but joy, despite whatever shortcomings it may have, but at the moment that the director played the nostalgia card (Bumblebee plays some motivational music last heard in 1986 when Hot Rod opens the Matrix) I had to pause the film. The piece had been spliced into the scene perfectly, fitting the current mood and coherent with story up til this point (Bumblebee communicates through his radio - duh!) and I had to have a moment while I was overcome with delightful happiness at how much care and love had been put into this film.
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Pretty much nostalgia bait to be good has to be made by someone with love of the franchise.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

It’s hard to beat The Mandalorian for good nostalgia bait.

For bad, the Transformers movies are the bad movies that bad movies consider bad movies.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






What i find most interesting is the accelerating cycle of nostalgia and how it will affect younger franchises.

It's been known for a while that nostalgia comes in 20-year cycles. After about 20 years, a person tends to forget anything bad about a time period and look back on it fondly and want to go revisit that thing again.

But it seems, to me at least, like hollywood and TV are rapidly consuming any core, primo nostalgic media well before that 20-year gap. I've heard from friends in the entertainment industry that it's basic practice if you're a creative type, to try and figure out if there's any way to slap your idea onto some old dead franchise that didn't have much in the way of characterization or deep lore for you to have to contend with - which is why a lot of shows tend to lean hard on the 1980's "This Is A Cartoon Show To Sell Action Figures" genre, where most characters just existed as a silly shtick to show up on screen and do whatever the action figure could do.

The eye of the needle is just that much wider if you can pitch your idea as an original concept OOOOOOOOOOOOR as a reboot of this other thing people might remember and recognize and you might be able to buy the rights for on the cheap.

That's part of the reason you will often end up asking 'hey, did they even fething WATCH the original thing?' when you watch a reboot. The answer is often "no, the reboot was actually just pasted on sloppily to a completely unrelated film or TV project that couldn't get off the ground if it couldnt be pitched as a reboot to something the studio was sitting on."

But we still seem to be kind of hanging in the 80s-90s for that nostalgic media, and I suspect there's something twofold going on. First and foremost, you've got the wealth gap - the generation of people now hitting what used to be 'prime spending years' have a comparative sliver of the wealth of previous generations, and secondly, you've got the fact that what was popular in the early 2000s....basically never left. We've had a steady diet of comic book movies, star wars, reboots, retreads, and rehashes. An entire generation that was just raised on the boomers' hand me downs.Do you just...reboot it again? Do you start digging up what few original projects there were in the 00s?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 18:55:42


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

They should go back and reboot Launcelot Link or Gidget. A dark, psycho-psychological Patty Duke would be fun. And an Oscar-bait Monkees biopic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 19:01:11


   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I mean, this is nothing new.

Reimagining of classic theatre has been going on since forever. Taking a piece of Shakespeare and transposing the story to a different setting is a time honoured example.

Sure a lot of reimagine is absolute dross. Some remakes are utterly pointless shot-for-shot remakes. Such as the 1998 remake of Psycho.

Others are exploring the same core theme in a different way. The Robocop remake for instance was at least an attempt to incorporate modern drone technology, and a question of free will. Did it pull it off? Not quite, sadly. But it was pretty close to being a really interesting film.

Some even attract a ridiculous amount of piss and vinegar before people have even seen the film.

Then you have oddities such as The Mummy. The Brendan Fraser ones were really, really good fun (well, maybe not the third). The core of the original married to Indiana Jones. They’re modern day classics for a reason. Then, we got the god awful Tom Cruise one, which was just utterly crap in every conceivable way. It was such a stinker it sunk the shared universe it was meant to be launching.

I do think some of the salt reserved for nostalgia trips is that we’re not wide eyed kids anymore. When we were tiny sprogs, we simply didn’t have the exposure to any other media.

Fast forward 30 or so years? Or even 20 or so years, and we’ve seen more.

Try watching some of your childhood favourites again. He-Man is memeable, but the show is clearly a cheap and cheesy toy commercial. I still see why I loved it as a kid, but acknowledge my poor old parents must’ve suffered! Transformers? Still holds up for me. MASK? Oh....oh god that show was bad. Irritating child character, irritating but compulsory robot sidekick, crap writing and so on and so forth.

Anyone of our age groups expecting to be as blown away by Star Wars films as we were when we first saw them is frankly fooling themselves. And it seems some take umbrage at that, and declare the movies awful. Give it a bit for the kids who’s first experience was 7, 8 and 9, and we might see revisionism as we have with 1, 2 and 3.

Remember. 7 was vilified because “it’s nothing new”. 8? They did something different! RREEEEEEEEEEEE!. 9? I don’t get the distaste for it, because I think it’s great.

And a lot of criticism is overplayed. Apparently, it’s no longer the done thing to just say “nah, wasn’t for me”. Oh no. Seems the modern thing is to make a YouTube video longer than the runtime of the thing you’re criticising, because....well, I guess you’ve got to get some use out of your media studies degree*

*I partially jest. Many decent YouTubers have media study qualifications, and use that knowledge to make insightful videos. Others? Well let’s face it they just really like the sound of their own voice.

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I would watch a Monkees movie...... especially if it captured the crazy, nonsensical, camp of the original.

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Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Mad Doc Grotsnik, even Shakespeare mostly wrote “remakes and reimagining”.

There are only so many ideas. There are more ways to tell a story, but the confines of structure and audience expectation are limiting. Remakes and reboots have always been common, although we were either unaware of it because the title was changed or the source material was so far removed, or we didn’t care because the remakes were well done.

I personally don’t think things are really as bad as they seem outside of the top IPs all being based on Star Wars or comics. Tentpole blockbusters have been crappy for decades, while low budget concept films are as good as they have ever been. Talented film makers are still entering the industry, even if they are quickly snatched up, given a franchise movie, and put through the crucible these days.

As for movie reviewers, they provide insight, entertainment or both. And there’s nothing wrong with long reviews. Most people would prefer to watch 3 hours of Cats review videos than 1.5 hours of Cats.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






When it comes to anything featuring the Yet To Be Adequately Explained James Corden, I’d rather just not watch!


   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

You’re missing out on some quality entertainment.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






No, that’s what’s missing from his career

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Is it entertainment if you are laughing at them, but not with them?

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

I certainly think so.

Heck, that’s a whole genre: MET3K, Rifftrax, Best of the Worst, GoodBadFlix.

   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Some of the nostalgiabaiting is horrendously obvious, but some at least does interesting things with it's source material. Both the netflix Voltron (until last two seasons) and She-Ra were incredibly solid remakes of "toy era" cartoons.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Though if someone could set about reimagining Doug McClure style adventury monster movies, that’d be great.

Certainly the Godzilla and Kong films are tickling my pickle. Not exactly setting the box office alight, but what they do, they do pretty well. Especially as they’ve not messed with the designs too much. The fights likewise are akin to their illustrious predecessors, just using modern options to make them a smidge more dynamic.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oxfordshire

I guess where I wanted to go with this wasn't so much whether franchise reboots are a good or bad thing, though there's a lot to be said over that. I was more interested in those little moments directors/producers put in that seem to have nothing related to what's actually going on that are a deliberate hark back to previous work. To me those bait moments feel forced and off putting, similar to when a movie is sponsored by a vehicle manufacturer and you have to get the obligatory lingering shot of the brand badge. Some people don't mind or don't notice it is there but for those that know what they're looking for they're like a nicely painted landscape picture that someone has drawn a comedy penis on. Once you see it you can't unsee it, it's distracting and has no purpose being there.

Or maybe I've just become super intolerant of directing gimics and can't enjoy movies any more.
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Kyoto Secunda and her Clone Sister (both aged 8) have even picked up on it.

Daddy why are they making so many live-action versions of cartoons?

Dora the Explorer and Winx Club for them.

Not looking forward to the grim and gritty MLP remake that is no doubt coming in 2031.

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I think it depends.

There are Nods and Winks which make us feel clever, and Peter Kaye Style DO YOU REMEMBER THIS DO YOU WHAT WERE WE THINKING club you over the head with it.

And I don’t think there’s a strict rule to which is which.

Take the recent Ghostbusters film. There, it’s fine with me. Bust of Egon is subtle. Peter, Ray, Winston, Janine and Slimer? All cameos enough without it feeling forced. Other opinions are available on that film though.


   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Kyoto Secunda and her Clone Sister (both aged 8) have even picked up on it.

Daddy why are they making so many live-action versions of cartoons?

Dora the Explorer and Winx Club for them.

Not looking forward to the grim and gritty MLP remake that is no doubt coming in 2031.

Ah, optimism. Its 2021*, from the look of things. The setup for the new movie and series is 'magic is gone and the various pony tribes don't associate anymore'
*maybe 2022 because usual suspects, but it was planned for this year. It may now be Netflix only (no theatrical release), but not sure if it got pushed date-wise.


---
Now if you want a really GOOD reboot done very well (fleshed out characters, coherent story, villains with motivations, etc), the She-ra reboot (2018-2020) stomps all over its toy-obsessed progenitor. The 30 year hiatus was really good for it (and they got a good crew together)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/05 16:53:32


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

I await the next Robin Hood TV series. I loved the old big hair one one done on a shoestring budget and asking the question what if these guys were terrorists.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Do you mean the superior ITV series of the 80’s?

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you mean the superior ITV series of the 80’s?


Yes, has there been a subsequent TV series? Maid Marion doesn't count, being clearly a spin off
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






There was the edgelord BBC Merlin?

   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




The_Real_Chris wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Do you mean the superior ITV series of the 80’s?


Yes, has there been a subsequent TV series? Maid Marion doesn't count, being clearly a spin off


Yep. Two.
Old Rob gets recycled a lot.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_films_and_television_series_featuring_Robin_Hood

Since Marian doesn't count, that would be these:
1997–1998: The New Adventures of Robin Hood, a France–U.S. TV series, starred Matthew Porretta as a black-leather-clad Robin in the first two seasons and John Bradley taking over the lead role in the final two seasons. The tone of the series resembled its contemporaries Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and Xena: Warrior Princess. Porretta had appeared as Will Scarlet O'Hara in Men in Tights.
2006–2009: Robin Hood, a BBC One television series was produced by Tiger Aspect. It was first broadcast as thirteen-episode series in the UK from October to December 2006, with a second series following in 2007, and third in 2009. Jonas Armstrong stars in the title role.


We're pretty much past due, it had become a series redone every decade for a while there.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Fireknife Shas'el





Leicester

Robin Hood is something I’d just like to see done right once! Everyone seems to want to update it, or put a spin on it or something, so that it’s not just plain Rodin Hood, which would be fine if someone had ever done plain Robin Hood in the first place!

I have the same problem with War of the Worlds; just give me tripods fighting ironclads, dammit!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, for god’s sake, it’s been a hugely popular story for the best part of a thousand years, why do people think they need to change it to make it better?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/06 06:57:11


DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I think we also need to be honest that there are economic factors involved.

Remounting Robin Hood? Well, you don’t need the rights to the story, because there are no rights. But you’ll want some kind of New Thing put in to add to the draw.

The same with a fair amount of similar sources. They were either folk tales to begin with, or so long out of copyright you can go crazy.

   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

What does basic Robin Hood mean to you though?

Should it be clean Hollywood Middle Ages, everyone has a neat haircut and newly pressed tights?

Or dirty muddy middle ages with everyone scruffy and wearing rags?

Or video game/anime Middle Ages?

Or something else entirely?


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






At its core?

Robs from the rich to give to the poor. Robin central protagonist, Sherrif the central antagonist. Acts of derring do. Lincoln Green.

From there, adjust realism to taste.

   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 Jadenim wrote:
Robin Hood is something I’d just like to see done right once!


AHEM



Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
What does basic Robin Hood mean to you though?

Should it be clean Hollywood Middle Ages, everyone has a neat haircut and newly pressed tights?

Or dirty muddy middle ages with everyone scruffy and wearing rags?

Or video game/anime Middle Ages?

Or something else entirely?



I don't care just if its going to be "muddy dark middleages" just make the characters muddy not the camera. I'm tired of films where I feel like I have to get a flash light out to see the sets and characters because they've gone super grungy dark with everything including the lighting. Yes the UK is overcast, its not perpetual night

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