Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2021/05/17 13:26:51
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Brainy Zoanthrope
|
Hey all,
Does drive by demolitions require you to have shot with your bikers or can you just spend 1 cp to double move?
Giving me a reason to hive the leader a 24 inch autogun.
DRIVE-BY DEMOLITIONS
The Rusted Claw Stratagem
The riders of the Rusted Claw attack with reckless verve, making close-range explosive attacks on the foe before speeding off in a cloud of flame and swirling dust.
Use this Stratagem before a RUSTED CLAW BIKER unit from your army shoots in your Shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, add 1 to hit and wound rolls made for attacks with that unit’s Grenade weapons. After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase, it can immediately make a move as if it were your Movement phase, but cannot charge this turn.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/17 13:38:54
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Lord of the Fleet
|
Use of the phrase "After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase" implies that yes they must, although could you instead state "Ok I select this unit to shoot. They won't shoot with anything but now that they've resolved the shooting attack they can now move".
|
|
|
|
2021/05/17 15:41:23
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Dakka Veteran
|
Shooting phase rules: "When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equippped with".
My interpretation is that you have permission to shoot with 'any weapons', which you can decide is no weapons. Your shooting attacks for that unit are then resolved and you can use the stratagem.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 15:42:44
8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 4090 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
|
|
|
|
2021/05/17 16:35:12
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
The only requirement in the book to select a unit to shoot is that it be armed with one or more ranged weapons (and that it didn't advance or fall back, unless it has special rules). There is no requirement that you actually shoot those weapons, nor is there any requirement that you have a valid target for any of those weapons.
Note this does mean that if you advance your bikers, they need to be armed with at least one assault weapon in order to be able to eligible to start the shooting sequence.
The strat itself is ambiguous as to whether you need to even be able to start the sequence at all though, as it just says "before they shoot," not "when you select them to shoot." But then it says "after all attacks have been resolved," which implies that you at least started the shooting sequence. This is a great example of GW's bad rule writing.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/17 16:37:34
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 04:38:31
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
You must shoot when you use this stratagem. The wording "after all attacks have been resolved," is pretty clear.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 04:39:05
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Brainy Zoanthrope
|
Well rusted claw treat all pistol and rapid fire weapons as assault. So they are good there.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 06:31:11
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
p5freak wrote:You must shoot when you use this stratagem. The wording "after all attacks have been resolved," is pretty clear.
As long as the unit is eligible to be selected to shoot, I don't see why it actually has to make any attacks. "After all attacks have been resolved" just denotes the timing of when the second move occurs, it doesn't say "you must make at least one attack." If you select the unit to shoot then elect not to shoot any of its weapons, then that is "after all attacks have been resolved."
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 07:57:22
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
SHOOTING PHASE
Start your Shooting phase by selecting one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. An eligible unit is one that has one or more models equipped with ranged weapons. Units that Advanced this turn, and units that Fell Back (other than TITANIC units) this turn are not eligible. If you have no eligible units, your Shooting phase ends. After you have shot with one of your eligible units, you can then select another of your eligible units to shoot with, and so on, until you have shot with as many of your units as you wish.
When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with (each ranged weapon can only be shot once per phase). The ranged weapons that models in a unit are equipped with are detailed on its datasheet.
No unit can be selected to shoot with more than once in each Shooting phase. Once all your eligible units that you wish to shoot with have done so, your Shooting phase ends and you progress to the Charge phase.
When you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with. Resolving attacks are mandatory, not optional, once you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. The steps to resolve attacks are :
1. Hit roll
2. Wound roll
3. Allocate Attack
4. Saving throw
5. Inflict Damage
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 08:12:05
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 08:26:01
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
p5freak wrote:SHOOTING PHASE
Start your Shooting phase by selecting one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. An eligible unit is one that has one or more models equipped with ranged weapons. Units that Advanced this turn, and units that Fell Back (other than TITANIC units) this turn are not eligible. If you have no eligible units, your Shooting phase ends. After you have shot with one of your eligible units, you can then select another of your eligible units to shoot with, and so on, until you have shot with as many of your units as you wish.
When you select a unit to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with (each ranged weapon can only be shot once per phase). The ranged weapons that models in a unit are equipped with are detailed on its datasheet.
No unit can be selected to shoot with more than once in each Shooting phase. Once all your eligible units that you wish to shoot with have done so, your Shooting phase ends and you progress to the Charge phase.
When you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with, you select targets and resolve attacks with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with. Resolving attacks are mandatory, not optional, once you select one eligible unit from your army to shoot with. The steps to resolve attacks are :
1. Hit roll
2. Wound roll
3. Allocate Attack
4. Saving throw
5. Inflict Damage
This seems correct.
However, you can shoot pistols as long as you only have 1 model in range and LoS you will only make one attack with a pistol, and then can mode because of the drive by demolitions rules.
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 08:53:45
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
"Any" weapons includes 0 weapons.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 09:32:37
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Captain of the Forlorn Hope
|
True, it does say "with any or all ranged weapons that models in that unit are equipped with". The language "any or all" means no weapons to all their weapons.
So on further assessment my previous statement seems incorrect, and it can be 0 weapons.
|
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 10:08:54
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
I dont see how no weapon can be any weapon. I agree that you can shoot with a pistol, and then move as if its the movement phase.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 10:21:21
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Horrific Hive Tyrant
|
OK, but "after all attacks" would apply after all of 0 attacks have been made, ie if you aren't shooting at all.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 10:59:08
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
You dont resolve shooting when you dont shoot. And you have to resolve shooting, because the stratagem says so.
After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase....
I have already quoted the 5 steps needed to resolve shooting attacks.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 11:12:23
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Horrific Hive Tyrant
|
Right, but all of your shooting attacks ARE resolved. Because there weren't any.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 11:16:28
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
You cannot resolve what isnt there. The stratagem requires you to resolve attacks.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 11:17:06
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 11:42:23
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Horrific Hive Tyrant
|
p5freak wrote:You cannot resolve what isnt there. The stratagem requires you to resolve attacks.
No, it requires that all attacks be resolved.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 12:08:15
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
|
Any can include zero. If the text read ALL, then it would mean you have to shoot, but any can be zero.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 13:37:15
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
p5freak wrote:You cannot resolve what isnt there. The stratagem requires you to resolve attacks.
Yes, and the resolution of no attack is trivial.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 16:01:09
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Brainy Zoanthrope
|
After re reading the steps here I think you can do it.
There is no requirement for a unit to be eligible to shoot other than having ranged weapons.
The bikers have ranged weapons.
You select them to shoot, realize there is nothing in range, resolve "all 0 attacks" and then spen 1 cp to double move.
To keep the game reasonable and not have an issue at the table ill give the jackal leader an 24 inch auto gun that he treats as assault and just get 1 shot off.
Thanks for the discussion.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/18 17:40:35
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin
|
Yes you are correct.
"After this unit has resolved all of its shooting attacks this phase". Any or all or none, doesn't matter. Declare that unit done shooting, and follow the next step of the stratagem.
FYI, there's at least one FAQ and I think two that support this type of logic. Ones for Tsons phoenix rising book (2nd page on the Q&A section) and I can not recall the other, but the wording is the same.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/20 10:52:29
Subject: Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
|
monkey wrench in the plans: No possible targets makes a unit ineligible to shoot.
BRB, shooting, Select Targets, 2nd paragraph: "Only enemy units can be chosen as the target for an attack. In order to target an enemy unit, at least one model in that unit must be within range (i.e. within the distance of the Range characteristic) of the weapon being used and be visible to the shooting model. If unsure, get a look from behind the firing model to see if any part of the target
is visible. For the purposes of determining visibility, a model can see through other models in its unit. If there are no eligible targets for a weapon then that weapon cannot shoot. If this is the case for all of a
unit’s ranged weapons, then that unit is not eligible to shoot with. "
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/20 10:53:11
This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
|
|
|
|
2021/05/20 10:59:45
Subject: Re:Does drive by demolitions require you to shoot with your bikers?
|
|
Nihilistic Necron Lord
|
Even if there are eligible targets in range you still could resolve shooting with 0 weapons, and move. Which i still doubt.
|
|
|
|
|