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Chapter Approved and Munitorum Field Manual 2021 are up for pre-order next weekend:

https://warhammer-community.com/2021/5/23/sunday-preview-the-mortal-realms-quake-beneath-the-tread-of-kragnos/

So what are we expecting from this? Any hoped for rules and points changes?

Also, looks like the free points were just a one time deal.

Ah, another round of cash grabs before the.... wait for it.... new improved Warhammer X that invalidates it all, again?

I expect heavy intercessors to be 11 points per model and warp spiders to be added to legends.

I expect point changes based on pre-Death Guard tournament results. These books are made few months in advance so I doubt we'll see any changes to DG or Drukhari.

I also expect some mission changes and changes to secondaries as well as new secondary objectives.

Basically the same I've expected from GHB over the years, but with this CA has basically the same point release cadence as AoS. Something I expected when CA was released in the GHB spot last year.

Nobody in my group bought the GT Mission pack and I'm not even sure if more than half of the people even know it exists. If this CA is only about tournament missions noone will care about it. Updated points? Yeah, well, we get these from Battlescribe one week later if GW can't be bothered to update their pdf. I guess after the crusade books the tournament crowd wants to have something too, but I'm not part of that group.
Honestly, considering all their delays at this point I think they should have scrapped the whole thing and instead put out a codex with their ressources. The tournament players got along with their boring ITC missions for years, I'm sure they would have been okay with a longer lifespan of the first pack, especially since most parts of the World didn't even have a lot of tournaments in the last 1,5 years...

Edit: thinking about it I'd say that stuff would have a good place in a WD, just like the Maelstrom missions. Didn't they even have the points pdf only last months in there only to make that invalid now?

They just bundled a point book in WD not that long ago

 Nevelon wrote:
They just bundled a point book in WD not that long ago

Which was the Mk 1 points list.

So question is, will they print and include the Mk 2 points book with another WD?

Best news in months.
Let's hope it's enough to balance the game a bit more.
I have a gorilla-sized monkey on my back, with restrictions being lifted I might actually play again now.

No, not best news in months. Most people have barely played since 9th came out with the original points/mission packs. releasing new ones now, at a cost, is just BS. Put it up online for free, although that's how I'll get mine anyway when it gets put up by someone else.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Chapter Approved and Munitorum Field Manual 2021 are up for pre-order next weekend:

https://warhammer-community.com/2021/5/23/sunday-preview-the-mortal-realms-quake-beneath-the-tread-of-kragnos/

So what are we expecting from this? Any hoped for rules and points changes?

Also, looks like the free points were just a one time deal.

I expect nothing. Its really too soon for any of 2021's games (and those are rare anyway) to be meaningfully accounted for so this is in response to... the various flavors of Marines? And necrons, I guess?

The first replaced by a free online version was... fine, if an obvious waste of money. But from the February update to now (which is to say, when they sent it to printers in maybe... March?)... seems pointless. I'm not sure Dark Eldar were even out when they finalized the values in this book. If they wanted to update a couple factions, they could have done that online again. But they could at least wait until a dozen 9th edition armies actually exist in the wild before the next system-wide overhaul via darts.

 Aenar wrote:
Best news in months.

If that's the best news you've had in months, even limited to GW news, then your life truly sucks.

 Aenar wrote:
Let's hope it's enough to balance the game a bit more.

Oh, were you serious?

Voss wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Chapter Approved and Munitorum Field Manual 2021 are up for pre-order next weekend:

https://warhammer-community.com/2021/5/23/sunday-preview-the-mortal-realms-quake-beneath-the-tread-of-kragnos/

So what are we expecting from this? Any hoped for rules and points changes?

Also, looks like the free points were just a one time deal.

I expect nothing. Its really too soon for any of 2021's games (and those are rare anyway) to be meaningfully accounted for so this is in response to... the various flavors of Marines? And necrons, I guess?

The first replaced by a free online version was... fine, if an obvious waste of money. But from the February update to now (which is to say, when they sent it to printers in maybe... March?)... seems pointless. I'm not sure Dark Eldar were even out when they finalized the values in this book. If they wanted to update a couple factions, they could have done that online again. But they could at least wait until a dozen 9th edition armies actually exist in the wild before the next system-wide overhaul via darts.

Agreed, this seems very early after the last "balance update", especially when printing lead times are considered. They couldn't have collected much data. Maybe just fixing what they broke? I was really hoping that the free balance updates via download system would stick around.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I expect point changes based on pre-Death Guard tournament results. These books are made few months in advance so I doubt we'll see any changes to DG or Drukhari.

I also expect some mission changes and changes to secondaries as well as new secondary objectives.

Basically the same I've expected from GHB over the years, but with this CA has basically the same point release cadence as AoS. Something I expected when CA was released in the GHB spot last year.

These are printed on the fly more than codexes.

Don't expect magic, because there are so many codexes incoming.

Best thing is to hope for properly revised secondaries.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:
Most people have barely played since 9th came out with the original points/mission packs.

Depends where you live.

Free would be nice though.

It would be nice if this was accompanied by a Big FAQ. The FAQs for the codexes we've gotten so far and the Compendium have been a little "thin".

Release broken junk, charge people $50 for it, then charge them another $50 to fix it once a year.

It's a great gig if you can get it, I guess. Whichever marketing exec came up with the brilliant idea of making people pay for this stuff every year presumably got quite the bonus for it.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Release broken junk, charge people $50 for it, then charge them another $50 to fix it once a year.

It's a great gig if you can get it, I guess. Whichever marketing exec came up with the brilliant idea of making people pay for this stuff every year presumably got quite the bonus for it.

Going to be minimal rule changes, some slight point updates (whoops lol gretchins are now 4 pts) followed by pandering power creep for space marines.
If we're lucky... *lucky* it'll include a points update for CSM along side two wounds.

If we're lucky... *lucky* it'll include a points update for CSM along side two wounds.

Not in the cards. 2W won't happen until the codex.

Maybe a point change, but no idea what would change for Chaos nor why.

I think we'll see a few changes to weapon costs, maybe a few changes to some models, like the impulsor dropping (potentially) in cost a tad, and potentially some increases for some units (It wouldn't surprise me to see Dante drop a few points, but Sanguinary Guard jump up a bit).

I think the real shake-up is going to be on the secondary objectives and the mission pack, and that I am by far and away more excited for.

I anticipate melta getting points bumped. Not much else is really speculate on.

Luckily I don't care about this. I miss the bonus narrative rules from CA otherwise it's barely worth the paper & ink it's printed with.

I expect many of you will be disappointed.

I will not pay for points when they get released for free a few weeks later.

I don't really even understand how they can sell points as a practical matter. Does that mean that technically speaking if you don't buy the new points, you can't use your army any more? Because it's not like you can just keep using the old points values.

Seems like one of those "The Emperor has no clothes" things that only works as long as nobody says "hey, wait a minute..." (or, perhaps more accurately, only works because everyone gets the points from other sources, and GW pretends to look the other way).

The main drive for this one will be the GT book.
That book saw a lot of heavy use for me, and for sure a bit of tweaks to the secondary missions can't do the game bad.

I will laugh hard if this book bans factions specific secondaries from GT play.

As for points, there will be no changes to DE (where the points are not the sole issue by the way), since this book can't possibly have that data already.

I foresee an increase in cost for all types of melta, an increase in cost for attack bikes... actually not much since the balancing of SM/necron/DG isn't that bad. Maybe a little point buffs to less used units. Probably some buffs to Deathwatch.

Interested to see the new missions and secondaries. Basically everyone I know uses the GT Mission pack for matched play games (as it's compact and easy to transport) so having some more variety will be nice.

With the lead time on the books needed to print them and the lack of real data over the past year I'm really unsure as to how the points are going to look. Plus with disrupted and delayed schedules I could see Orks and Sisters (maybe even GK and TS) getting weirdly out of whack points changes to reflect Codexes that were meant to be out already, so that'll be fun to look forward to.

In terms of Necrons, everything that isn't a CCB, Warrior, Scarab or Chronomancer needs to go down in points (yes even NB and TSK). But again because of the lack of data and relatively short amount of time between Codex and this book I doubt there will be many changes for Necrons or LSM.

ccs wrote:

If that's the best news you've had in months, even limited to GW news, then your life truly sucks.


Oh, were you serious?

Of course limited to GW stuff, I haven't bought literally anything GW since late 2020 as they released nothing even vaguely interesting to me.
Now that restrictions are lifting, the idea of starting to play again with trash tier armies (Tau and Guard especially) wasn't so appealing. An attempt to balance the game is always welcome imho.

The best thing would be receiving these updates as free PDF files on warcom.
Even then, considering my hobby spending is limited to liters of resin and STL files at the moment, I don't mind spending those €25-30 on a rules booklet that is convenient to use in game.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Chapter Approved and Munitorum Field Manual 2021 are up for pre-order next weekend:

https://warhammer-community.com/2021/5/23/sunday-preview-the-mortal-realms-quake-beneath-the-tread-of-kragnos/

So what are we expecting from this? Any hoped for rules and points changes?

Also, looks like the free points were just a one time deal.

The last points change was half-assed to say the least, they knew there would be an uproar charging for that crap, it should have been day 7 errata with how few changes there were. Hopefully this will be a larger overhaul.

Here is my wishlist: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T8GnkAKp8jz9toKfaM5mPBrhxiHrctpPGUPEq1iBjGI/edit#gid=1800157543

For Necrons the thing I hope for the most is reduced price for voidblades and hyperphase swords on HQs, I just want GW to show they give a damn about people that use points and not PL.

For the missions I am hoping for a full suite of objectives for all armies, no more objectives in army books and no more armies left in the cold, alternatively, banning faction objectives from the GT missions. I am also hoping non-Characters stop being worth VP for the Abhor the Witch secondary objective and the remaining Warpcraft Secondaries get buffs. Cut Off the Head and Bring it Down need buffs, if you are taking 6 10-wound vehicles it should be possible to score more than 6 VP for killing all of them. Maybe just lower the 2 VP bracket from 11+ to 10+. Buff the 10W vehicles that need it to keep up with the increased heat from Bring it Down.

I am hoping campaign supplements get banned in the GT missions or Specialist Detachments get allowed, if Specialist Detachments do get allowed I hope for a nerf to the SSAG.

I have played two games of solohammer since the beginning of the pandemic. This feels really unnecessary given the freebie in WD a few weeks ago.

Jesus, does everybody on Dakka hate playing 40k?

The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.

I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.

I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.

I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.

As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.

I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.

If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?

Abaddon303 wrote:
Jesus, does everybody on Dakka hate playing 40k?

The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.

I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.

I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.

I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.

As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.

I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.

If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?

100% this, especially the last sentence.
It's €32.50 RRP, which means less than €25 with the usual discount. It's the best money you can spend in this hobby if you play matched play games regularly enough.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Jesus, does everybody on Dakka hate playing 40k?

The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.

I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.

I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.

I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.

As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.

I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.

If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?

I love playing 40K and I can’t wait to finally get a game in but when your first game of an edition requires you to buy updated points and rules for your essentially new BRB and Codex, it’s fairly galling. Especially when it’s another €25+ on top of what you’ve already spent as opposed to a free document correcting the points values and rules. There is an avalanche of additional books on top of the Codexes that is really off-putting.