Snrub wrote:I'll preface this by saying I don't really have a clue about Fantasy rules or Fantasy in general, really. I'm just creating a
VC army for funsies and looking to bulk out the ranks a bit.
Firstly i'm looking for some info on unit filler etiquette.
Namely,
-What's a reasonable size? What % of a unit is it acceptable to use filler for?
-How do you scale unit fillers up with larger units? For larger units would it be beneficial to make larger fillers or use multiple smaller fillers?
-What's appropriate placement within a unit? Rear, centre, side? (Not front row obviously. Can't fill in for a command group!
)
-When is it not alright to unit fillers? What sort of units should you not stack out with fillers? I would have thought infantry blocks only, but could you get away with using them on cavalry?
-Best way to theme a filler? Is it ok to just plonk a rock on a piece of
MDF and base it as the rest of the unit or do fillers need to be unit appropriate? (i.e - putting a ghoul or two on it to show it goes with the ghoul unit?)
Secondly, being Fantasy, i'm aiming to base the army on square bases. So if anyone can clue me in on some base sizes i'd very much appreciate it.
-Do Varghiests/Crypt Horrors belong on 40 or 50
mm square bases?
-Was the Zombie Dragon on 100mm or a 120mm square.?
-Was there an "official" size for abyssal terrors? I've got Mannfred the Mortarch and that comes with an 120x92mm Oval base. Would a similar sized rectangle base be fine?
-And lastly, a 20mm or 40mm square base for a Ghoul King/Arch-regent model?
Thanks for any advice!
Vapire Counts is the easiest army to do filler for.
For bonus skeletons and zombies for raising use zombie and skeleton parts rising from the earth. This could be as little as a skull and a weapon arm on/in a pile of sand, remember to include the molecasts.
However the way I do it is to have a custom 100x80mm base to tag behind me zombie and skeleton units, which are complete. I include a full front rank of skeletons or zombies, then have thinner ranks of four then three all partial models emerging from the ground. I create a nest in the back ranks onto which I stick a green stuff cast from the imprint of a
d20. I putty over the numbers so they don't get imprinted on the green stuff. I flatten out the green stuff, which is easy to do by placing it on the large base before imprinting the
d20 on it. I sculpt sand around it and then add the emerging models. In play this single base represents up to 20 skeletons or zombies and uses about eight plus bitz and is used solely to represent extra models raised into an existing full unit.
In meta doing this deosnt entirely help you so havuing some singles of raising skeletons and zombies is useful.
Otherwise I specifically use gravestones as bonus markers for all other units in the efven that I want to make a larger unit, or also include a character that overflows his base. The latter is important, say you add a converted plastic Manfred on a steed from a Black Knight boxset. Decent sculpt and makes a decent model and is almost free if you want a different build for your Morghast. Trouble is he takes up a bit of room on either side. So replace the models on either side of him with gravestones on cavalry bases. Now he fits. This may mean moving the musician or standard bearer to the second rank. When someone gets pedantic about that tell them where to get off. The position of the champion is important, and while the other command group miniatures should ideally be in the front row, if the shape of the models does not allow that do not sweat it, just take a models first attitude. If wide Manfred legally fits in the unit, and is where you want him, let him stay and work around him.
You can buy gravestones here:
https://www.renedra.co.uk/product/gravestones-ravens/
This is a cheap world distributed plastic set, so source it locally. Above link is mainly for reference, but there is no reason specifically not to buy direct from Renedra, it all depends where you are.
Two packs of these gravestones will provide four cavalry filler bases and numerous infantry filler bases, and you can always put two or three on a 40x40mm to spice it up.
Otherwise I tend to use rocks and tree stumps as filler, as I can make a supply of 20x20, 25x25, 20x40, 25x50, 40x40, 50x50 and 40x60 custom bases all with assorted rocks. These are faction generic and can be used to fill any army for myself and guests. Personally I don't use fillers except for undead, I buy the models I need, but if my army is being loaned I do not restrict my guests use of my armies to what models I directly have, and will happily provide filler for their own armies, and I will use low filler myself to account for character miniatures which oddly fit units they join.
To that end I normally have two or three each of infantry and cavalry bases with faction specific scatter, broken shields and weapons etc, a standing banner, or scatter provided with official
GW kits which some armies get. All such pieces are low to the ground along one side so I can get a fit with an overhanging character with one side of rotation.
Tip: Dont buy resin rocks unless you want to drill and place miniatures on them, just get a small handful of slate gravel. It is often used as a surround for high rise buildings. One cupfull will last you for all your armies.
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Moscha wrote:
Secondly, being Fantasy, i'm aiming to base the army on square bases. So if anyone can clue me in on some base sizes i'd very much appreciate it.
-Do Varghiests/Crypt Horrors belong on 40 or 50 mm square bases?
-Was the Zombie Dragon on 100mm or a 120mm square.?
-Was there an "official" size for abyssal terrors? I've got Mannfred the Mortarch and that comes with an 120x92mm Oval base. Would a similar sized rectangle base be fine?
-And lastly, a 20mm or 40mm square base for a Ghoul King/Arch-regent model?
Square bases are a must in fantasy. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with the latest incarnation of
VC units / End Times models and their base sizes.
Calling for reinforcfments here!
Reinforcements arrived.
Vargheists and Crypt Horrors belong on 40x40mm bases
Tip1. Stack five or six ghouls (climbing over each other) on a 40x40mm base to act as a 'Crypt Horror' or ghoul filler or use extra Crypt Horrors (as normal) as deep filler for ghoul blocks. I do do the latter to spice up ghoul blocks even if I actually have enough ghouls. It looks super cool to have Crypt Horror filler lurking in ghouls, ghoul blocks can otherwise get boringSo long as the opponent clearly knows they don't do the Kroxigor/Skink thing. With the way models are sold you will normally have either extra Crypt Horrors or extra ghouls, normally the latter, they are decent troops but are very samey in large numbers and the alternates really help with a Strigoi themed army.
Tip2. Be careful assembling Vargheists, they can rank up if you are careful. Use them in a 2x2 formation for best results.
Zombie dragon uses either a chariot base or a 100x150mm base. It depends on edition and model. 9th Age formally allowed both.
Recommended models:
1. Thall the Defiler from Archon studios. A good fit for a chariot base or even an old school 50x50.
He can fit a rider very easily, e.g. any of the Mortarch set riders, a Vampire Handmaiden for a Lahmain vampire lady
2. For the larger model stick with the alt Terrorgheist. However as the old zombie dragon is a legal model and fit a chariot base you can get away with Thall. If you dont mind some reposing use Reaper Skeletal Dragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNp_oVIuQm0
He does fit a 100x150 if you repose the tail and left hind leg. I have the tail coiled round as a gigantic spear ala Xenomorph queen.
Very impressive model, but its old bones so you will need to deep pin it to avoid sagging. So, frankly, unless you are willing to go through a lot of modelling pain stick with Thall or the
GW kit. But the option is there, and yes, he is worth it.
Abyssal Terror varied, The older version was on a 40x40mm, then 50x50mm, the later Mortarch version was on a 60x100.
IIRC it was on a cavalry base once long ago. I like how 9th Age turned this into design-a-monster.
Ghoul Kings fit on 20x20mm bases they are just another vampire. The Archregent will need a 40x40mm base. I have one, he will not fit a 20x20mm without a lot of basing schenanegans. You can do it, there is the rock pillar method whereas you make a rock pillar to fit then perch the model on top. I never do this, it looks desperate. For oversized minis I tend to just use larger bases that scale up with the unit it fits.
So my Ghoul King (Archregent) is on a 40x40mm base. My Or Warlord (Megaboss) is on a 50x50mm base. you can do this one of two ways. Either pay for three extra Rank and file models to fit the same base, or remove same from unit when he joins, mark which corner the character occupies, 'shadow' the other three models. The alternative is to accept the base size and ask the opponent to agree to allow the model to remain the original size for targeting purposes only. If they do not go for option one. It helps to make a thin mark on the top of the base to represent the corner that includes the character and be consistent. If you are allowed to go big do not allow yourself to get cheated out of Look Out Sir, or supporting attacks, but be mindful that more models can target the character as a result, and do not claim the last full rank bonus unless you have three spare models behind the last rank or the model count including up to three extra is enough to qualify.
