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What's the Rationale behind making Fast Attack Units so Lethal ?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





It seems like a trend to make Fast Attack units so lethal they are literally better than Heavy Support. Especially when taking into account buffs and what not. GW seems to be making it a point not to give heavy support vehicles too many buffs like getting rerolls from characters and all. But then when it comes to Fast Attack units, they seem to forget all that and hand out buffs like candy.

To the extent that now, it seems like in quite a few armies, especially 9th edition ones, its better to take Fast Attack than heavy support choices if you want to get things done.

One good example would be the Multi Melta Attack Bikes, and another would be the Admech Ironstriders. Now these are already super mobile because they are fast attack and thats expected for fast attack. But now, on top of that, they can easily be buffed. Ironstriders are core plus skitari. Multi Melta Attack Bikes are Core as well, and you can't rez a tank, but you can rez a Multi Melta Attack Bike model with your chief Apothecary. There are just a ton of buffs or strategems you can pile onto such fast attack choices which you can't do to heavy support.

So, like fast attacks seems to be getting too much benefits over heavy support units. I mean, if GW didn't want vehicles to get rerolls from characters, why did GW then give fast attack Vehicles the CORE keyword ? (Not to mention any and all strategems and buffs that benefit CORE).

Maybe they thought fast attack vehicles generally aren't as lethal as heavy support stuff. But again, when your fast attack choice is an ironstrider unit... its not less lethal at all, its much more lethal ! So making Fast Attack Choices more lethal than even heavy support, and then enabling them to gain the benefits of tons of buffs by being Core and whatnot just seems like odd design to me. Because already, in an edition where mobility is super valuable, Fast Attack units already have a massive advantage over heavy support.

Its like if you buff fast attack units to the extent they can totally replace heavy support slot units, then why did you even have this category of units called Heavy Support ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/05 05:01:43


 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





I'm not sure if there is a pattern really or just some outliers. Because of buffs many units now can be lethal and aren't that much tied to their basic profile anymore, making heavy support units overall: slow long range stuff and fast Attack = faster, often short ranged stuff. But how lethal the units in the respective slots are varies greatly from Codex to Codex and I'd need more information than two units to decide whether FA is now more killy.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm not seeing this.
Ironstriders are fast models with a single weapon, either a double autocannon or a double laser. That's not exactly the loadout of an heavy support vehicle, that's the loadout of a dedicated transport tipically. It makes sense that a model with a light/mid equipment and high speed is a fast attack.
You can think of them as landspeeders. Same concept, similar or lower equipment. Land speeders are the definition of fast attack, so Ironstriders are too.

The reason why you are getting confused, is that right now the Ironstriders are undercosted, so it looks like they are a spearhead unit. They are not. They simply get used like that due to the low cost, but they are a unit meant for flanking.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Glass cannons? I could see a fast attack unit being designed to break through enemy ranks quickly, but not handle sustained counterattack.

Of course, just about everything dies if its visible and in range in 40K, so glass cannons don't really have a downside.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





This really is an outlier thing. For CSM the fast attack section consists of warp talons, raptors, CSM bike squads, and spawn. Guard has sentinels, hellhounds, and rough riders if you include legends. None of those units really represent the hard hitting elements of those factions.

Iron within, Iron without 
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight






I didnt realize my Sentinela were that deadly, news to me.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





it's honestly pretty arbitrary at times but useally it's "goes fast, short ranged" I mean the 8th edition SOB retributors could proably have classed as fast attack. they where fairly swift, moved up, hit hard, died fast.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Lethality of the units has nothing to do with their battle role. Fast attacks are typically units with high M stats or mechanics to early engage the opponent and never too much armored. Heavy support are infantries carrying heavy weapons, proper tanks and walkers mostly.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Blackie wrote:
Lethality of the units has nothing to do with their battle role. Fast attacks are typically units with high M stats or mechanics to early engage the opponent and never too much armored. Heavy support are infantries carrying heavy weapons, proper tanks and walkers mostly.


This. In addition, GW rolls a d6 whenever they sort any unit into a category and on an unmodified roll of 6 they roll another d3 deciding whether that unit goes into elite, fast attack or heavy support.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/06 11:19:57


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A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
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