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Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I have a problem with having greater daemons on the battle field. I play Slaanesh and have a Keeper of Secrets and Shalaxi Helbane in my list. I exalt the Keeper and give it the 4++ trait. There's nothing I can do to Shalaxi. My friend plays Drukari and has won first turn the last few games. He just dark lances one of the two of them off the board before I even have a chance to do anything. The next round my other daemon is usually removed as well. My problem is how can I prevent this from happening? I can't put them into reserves since that means they don't come onto the board until round 2 and there's no guarantee that I'll make the charge rolls to get them into combat. Even if I do he'll just fall back with whatevers left of the unit I charge and then shoot my daemon off the board. I can't use look out sir and since the Keeper has 18 wounds he can't hide behind terrain.

My opponent usually runs 1 ravager (3 dk lances), 1 of the large transports (1 dk lance) and, 2 venoms. He also has 2 units of blood brides, a unit of 10 Hellions, a unit of 6-8 bikers and a couple of other troops.

Any suggestions would be welcome.
   
Made in nz
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



New Zealand

Re-read the terrain rules and FAQs because if your terrain actually blocks LOS you will be hidden - rather than just being counted as hidden by the obscuring trait.
Drukhari are pretty strong at the moment, so you have that to deal with, but what are your other threats? If it is the Greater Daemons and nothing, they will get shot off the board. If you have a bunch of things that they find scary, some will survive... not necessarily what you would choose, but viable threats nonetheless.
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Florida

All GD's should be exalted. A LoC can be pretty tanky with the impossible robe and Incorporeal Form warlord trait, but it will still die if focused. Bloodthirsters, Unclean Ones, and Keepers should be held in reserve and deepstrike instead of trying to cross the table.

I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I do have other threats out on the field. I've been using a detachment of Emp's Children with a detachment of Slaanesh daemons.

As well as the 2 greater daemons I have a terminator lord, a unit of terminators with lightning claws and combi-bolters, 2 units of noise marines (8 sonic blasters and 2 doom blasters each) as well as a trio of obliterators.

I was unaware that the terrain could be used as blocking LoS since both daemons have 18+ wounds. It was my understanding that at that point they were visible from any place on the table (as though they were aircraft).
   
Made in nz
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



New Zealand

From the Core book FAQ:
OBSCURING AND DENSE COVER Obscuring and Dense Cover are two terrain traits introduced with ninth edition that interact with visibility. These rules do not overwrite the normal rules for determining visibility, though – they are in addition to them. Specifically, even though the Obscuring rules state that Aircraft and models with a Wounds characteristic of 18+ can be seen through Obscuring terrain, they are still only visible (and hence eligible) targets if the firing model can physically see them (so if the terrain in question is solid and opaque, they are still not eligible targets). Also, in the same way that Obscuring terrain ‘ blocks’ visibility when it is in between the firing model and its intended target, Dense Cover terrain imposes a hit penalty whenever it is between the firing model and its intended target (with the noted exceptions). It is not required for a unit to be fulfilling the criteria of ‘gaining the benefits of cover’, as described for Obstacles and Area Terrain, for this penalty to hit rolls to apply (but also note that any rule that ignores the benefits of cover, or that ignores the benefits of cover that impose a penalty on hit rolls, would still ignore that penalty).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/08 02:48:33


 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Thanks. It would have taken me a while to dig out that info.
   
Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

Terrain can certainly help depending on what you use.

One of the issue is that 9th edition as seriously upped the damage out put of weapons, with most new codex putting out more and better shots. Alot of weapons have gone to damage 2 and alot og anti-tank weapons have moved to dam D3+3.
Vehicles and monsters haven't gain any more wounds and are thus just worse than they used to be. There is a reason you never see any vehicles in most lists unless they have invuln saves, it needs fixing but I'm not sure how they would do it now.

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