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Could not avoid seeing the ads for the new 4ok computer game, and saw it has some 40k rhetoric, like "Suffer not the mutant, suffer not the heretic, suffer not the traitor." Of course i noticed this was lacking 6 important words" "To live, to live, to,live."

Is someone dialing back the classic 40k memes and language because saying 'suffer not the heretic to live' is maybe considered too violent for mass markets like PC games? I mean, saying 'suffer not the heretic to live" is basically saying "Kill anyone who disagrees with your beliefs." and maybe some companies don't want to be linked to that level of language.

I guess it might be necessary to cut down the tone of some of the dialog in 40k for marketing to people not necessarily into 40k now, but into computer games. I just hope that some weasels in marketing don't decide that the dialog in actual 40k itself has to be dialed down.

Does it even matter? The marketing guys live in such a different world, that it may as well be another planet.

I think you're over-thinking it.

I assume the game involves a lot of killing stuff with bolters or somesuch. The implication of "suffer not the mutant" is pretty clear if it is accompanied by chopping of said mutant with a chainsword.

So, no, I don't think it has anything to do with toning down for marketing.

I think you're overthinking it.
Adding the "to live" is quite redundant as it's pretty apparent from context and marketing is all about being short and snappy.

I can see arguments about watering down the grimdark, but this is not it.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Could not avoid seeing the ads for the new 4ok computer game, and saw it has some 40k rhetoric, like "Suffer not the mutant, suffer not the heretic, suffer not the traitor." Of course i noticed this was lacking 6 important words" "To live, to live, to,live."

Is someone dialing back the classic 40k memes and language because saying 'suffer not the heretic to live' is maybe considered too violent for mass markets like PC games? I mean, saying 'suffer not the heretic to live" is basically saying "Kill anyone who disagrees with your beliefs." and maybe some companies don't want to be linked to that level of language.

I guess it might be necessary to cut down the tone of some of the dialog in 40k for marketing to people not necessarily into 40k now, but into computer games. I just hope that some weasels in marketing don't decide that the dialog in actual 40k itself has to be dialed down.

I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that the new 'necromunda hired gun' game is trying to be LESS violent?

.....have you seen any footage of it?

Like, at all? any? Or really of any warhammer video game? Gleeful over the top violence is and has always been a major selling point of the franchise.

 the_scotsman wrote:
...I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that the new 'necromunda hired gun' game is trying to be LESS violent?

.....have you seen any footage of it?

Like, at all? any? Or really of any warhammer video game? Gleeful over the top violence is and has always been a major selling point of the franchise.

I've tried playing it. The enemy-spawn triggers were placed by someone who forgot that the game had wall-running mechanics in it, so it's largely a game about backtracking to figure out why the end-of-mission cutscene isn't triggering and then getting shot in the back because you walked over an enemy-spawn trigger from the wrong direction. It's very carefully calibrated to make sure you can't see any of the violence when it's happening.

Agree on the overthinking thing. I didn't even know that the "to live" part existed, though I'm not a close follower of Imperial lore.

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree on the overthinking thing. I didn't even know that the "to live" part existed, though I'm not a close follower of Imperial lore.

I'm too lazy to dig out my older books to check, but I'm pretty sure it's always just been "Suffer not the mutant. Suffer not the Heretic." etc, without the added "to live" on every single line.

As for "too violent for mass markets like PC games".... lol, what. If there's anything that embraces over the top violence and gore, it's video and computer games.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
...I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that the new 'necromunda hired gun' game is trying to be LESS violent?

.....have you seen any footage of it?

Like, at all? any? Or really of any warhammer video game? Gleeful over the top violence is and has always been a major selling point of the franchise.

I've tried playing it. The enemy-spawn triggers were placed by someone who forgot that the game had wall-running mechanics in it, so it's largely a game about backtracking to figure out why the end-of-mission cutscene isn't triggering and then getting shot in the back because you walked over an enemy-spawn trigger from the wrong direction. It's very carefully calibrated to make sure you can't see any of the violence when it's happening.

wait what, is this true?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
...I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that the new 'necromunda hired gun' game is trying to be LESS violent?

.....have you seen any footage of it?

Like, at all? any? Or really of any warhammer video game? Gleeful over the top violence is and has always been a major selling point of the franchise.

I've tried playing it. The enemy-spawn triggers were placed by someone who forgot that the game had wall-running mechanics in it, so it's largely a game about backtracking to figure out why the end-of-mission cutscene isn't triggering and then getting shot in the back because you walked over an enemy-spawn trigger from the wrong direction. It's very carefully calibrated to make sure you can't see any of the violence when it's happening.

wait what, is this true?

No even remotely. Every time you press the "E" key near an enemy, it triggers a spectacularly gruesome kill sequence.

The enemy spawning and backtracking bits are pretty accurate though - but it's not about hiding violence.

Oh I meant about the "running past enemies" bit, haha.

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree on the overthinking thing. I didn't even know that the "to live" part existed, though I'm not a close follower of Imperial lore.

It is a direct quote from Exodus.

Karol wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree on the overthinking thing. I didn't even know that the "to live" part existed, though I'm not a close follower of Imperial lore.

It is a direct quote from Exodus.

...well, a probable mistranslation of hebrew to greek to english in one version of the bible, anyway, which then got transliterated into the imperial dogma substituting in "mutants, heretics, aliens" etc.

Surprisingly, aliens and mutants are not often considered at all in most translations of the bible.

It litteraly says you will not suffer the witch to live. In hebrew the english/greek word that is used is one that describes someone who practices magic or acts against The Law , as in Gods law. So in way the same sentance covers both "Suffer not the xeno, the heretic, and the magic user/witch" to live.


Ah and on top of that the root of the word "witch" used in hebrew, is shared with words describing a male magic user, and it is used to described magic practic, specially magic practics of foreign source. So when Salomon or Dawid or the later king start performing "magic" rituals there is a different word used if it a magic ritual, also forbiden, but from the pre kings time, and one that the kigs use because of the influance of their foreing wives and concubines.

 Asmodai wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
...I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that the new 'necromunda hired gun' game is trying to be LESS violent?

.....have you seen any footage of it?

Like, at all? any? Or really of any warhammer video game? Gleeful over the top violence is and has always been a major selling point of the franchise.

I've tried playing it. The enemy-spawn triggers were placed by someone who forgot that the game had wall-running mechanics in it, so it's largely a game about backtracking to figure out why the end-of-mission cutscene isn't triggering and then getting shot in the back because you walked over an enemy-spawn trigger from the wrong direction. It's very carefully calibrated to make sure you can't see any of the violence when it's happening.

wait what, is this true?

No even remotely. Every time you press the "E" key near an enemy, it triggers a spectacularly gruesome kill sequence.

The enemy spawning and backtracking bits are pretty accurate though - but it's not about hiding violence.

Pretty much. It's a game that's designed with lots of bloody and gruesome violence, but the technical execution is so bad you don't see much of it.

That is funny, because it would make it a bit like w40k. Strategic combat with a large number of models, with a really bad rule set.

Karol wrote:
It litteraly says you will not suffer the witch to live. In hebrew the english/greek word that is used is one that describes someone who practices magic or acts against The Law , as in Gods law. So in way the same sentance covers both "Suffer not the xeno, the heretic, and the magic user/witch" to live.


Ah and on top of that the root of the word "witch" used in hebrew, is shared with words describing a male magic user, and it is used to described magic practic, specially magic practics of foreign source. So when Salomon or Dawid or the later king start performing "magic" rituals there is a different word used if it a magic ritual, also forbiden, but from the pre kings time, and one that the kigs use because of the influance of their foreing wives and concubines.

the word translated to 'witch' in KJV is not in any way agreed to be the best word to translate it to, as you've pointed out there is a completely different word with a completely phonetic root used for magic rituals performed by David or other kings. Mekhashepha is translated directly from hebrew to english by Eliezer Ben Yehuda as 'witch' but was translated to 'pharmakeia' in the Septuagint which is much closer in understanding in ancient greek society as a person who uses foreign herbs to poison people rather than the medieval european superstitions surrounding witches.

Because 'herbalist' does not have the same negative connotation in modern english as it did in ancient greek, 'witch' is retained as the current best translation, but that translation preserves the insertion of dark age european superstitious beliefs into the bible that were very likely not intended to be included in the text, as evidenced by the way that much earlier generations of hebrew scholars translated the work for the understanding of an ancient greek audience.

I think that 'witch' was used in KJV as more of a political tool of the time, rather than an actual accurate description.

Karol wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree on the overthinking thing. I didn't even know that the "to live" part existed, though I'm not a close follower of Imperial lore.

It is a direct quote from Exodus.

I couldn't care less. I've read enough of the bible to know that the rest isn't worth reading.

Whether it is or isn't dialed down in this example, this is the reason I wouldn't like to see 40k go truly mainstream. I fear it would be watered down and made more soft. To their credit I think there are enough people running GW who understand this and will protect the IP

 Jidmah wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Agree on the overthinking thing. I didn't even know that the "to live" part existed, though I'm not a close follower of Imperial lore.

It is a direct quote from Exodus.

I couldn't care less. I've read enough of the bible to know that the rest isn't worth reading.

This guy gets it

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
Whether it is or isn't dialed down in this example, this is the reason I wouldn't like to see 40k go truly mainstream. I fear it would be watered down and made more soft. To their credit I think there are enough people running GW who understand this and will protect the IP

I don't think there's any fear of that.

1- GW has been handing out computer game licenses by the bushel to any batch of idiots for years now. If that hasn't already 'watered it down,' it isn't a concern.
As for IP protection, it varies a lot. I've seen a lot of weird theories about 'lore changes' based on some background art or encyclopedia entries in games like 40K Gladius or either Necromunda, simply because it isn't a 100% 1-to-1 match for page XX of book Whichever. Which ignores years and years of retcons and lore changes by GW itself.

2- Warhammer is already mostly sexless violence. That tends not to get censored or watered down much in the 'mainstream.'

At this point, I'd actually be somewhat amused and entertained by a 'softer' take on warhammer. Something that isn't 110% about stabbing fools in the face would be refreshing.

Dakka is the only place where people can go to gak on a company that makes plastic toy soldiers, and then somehow turn the conversation into a slam on someone's religion or religious preferences.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
Whether it is or isn't dialed down in this example, this is the reason I wouldn't like to see 40k go truly mainstream. I fear it would be watered down and made more soft. To their credit I think there are enough people running GW who understand this and will protect the IP

I wonder just how many mulimillion dollar budget prestige TV series' will need to essentially run a 20-minute timer where you must show a hot topless lady, a sex scene, or a messy murder or risk losing everyone's attention before people stop trotting out this 'the mainstream media is so SOFT, MAAAAAAAAAAAN they never show the REAL gak.'

I can go on netflix and watch cgi porn/hyperviolence compilations, I can go watch a pregnant lady repeatedly stabbed in the belly on game of thrones, I can watch zombies ripping peoples' limbs off on the walking dead, I can take a kid to the most popular movie of the summer and basically guarantee someone gets their neck snapped or thrown off a cliff or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seabass wrote:
Dakka is the only place where people can go to gak on a company that makes plastic toy soldiers, and then somehow turn the conversation into a slam on someone's religion or religious preferences.

You must be new to the internet.

 the_scotsman wrote:

You must be new to the internet.

Nah, I just normally visit sites where admins or mods shut that gak down quickly. It's not that it doesn't happen, it just gets clipped fast.

Huh. Now I'm curious to see how it's translated in other languages. Anyone know the verse number?

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Could not avoid seeing the ads for the new 4ok computer game, and saw it has some 40k rhetoric, like "Suffer not the mutant, suffer not the heretic, suffer not the traitor." Of course i noticed this was lacking 6 important words" "To live, to live, to,live."

Is someone dialing back the classic 40k memes and language because saying 'suffer not the heretic to live' is maybe considered too violent for mass markets like PC games? I mean, saying 'suffer not the heretic to live" is basically saying "Kill anyone who disagrees with your beliefs." and maybe some companies don't want to be linked to that level of language.

I guess it might be necessary to cut down the tone of some of the dialog in 40k for marketing to people not necessarily into 40k now, but into computer games. I just hope that some weasels in marketing don't decide that the dialog in actual 40k itself has to be dialed down.

I'm sorry, are you seriously saying that the new 'necromunda hired gun' game is trying to be LESS violent?

.....have you seen any footage of it?

Like, at all? any? Or really of any warhammer video game? Gleeful over the top violence is and has always been a major selling point of the franchise.

I get the feeling OP is not talking about the nature of the violence of itself so much as the motivation behind it in the fluff. No one has a problem with a violent game really these days, but one where the violence is in game due to hatreds and issues that are similar to sensitive ones in real life in terms of rhetoric is a different issue.

I think Exodus is a Bob Marley album? He didn't like violence afaik