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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I didn’t see if this was answered anywhere, and it’s been bugging me for a while. As I understand it, the Imperium does a lot of ridiculous things all so that the population doesn’t know that Chaos exists. Like the Grey Knights have their whole deal with killing all the witnesses, and there was that time the governor of Vigilus made it illegal to look up when the great rift arrived.

But then I’ll be reading a story and some random guardsman will say something like “yeah remember that time we fought The Great Enemy? That really sucked!”

So is this just a case of writers sometimes forgetting that’s a thing, or has it been retconned away? Admittedly, the whole idea seems like one of the sillier silly things in warhammer, so I wouldn’t mind it being gone.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don’t think it’s been retconned away, maybe just a bit inconsistent.

The way I look at it, the galaxy is a big place so I don’t think it’s unreasonable that in some areas the denial of chaos is applied much more vigorously than others.

I expect in some regions the general population is completely oblivious, whereas in others (such as Cadia before it was destroyed) I assume that the general population was well aware of it. Of course, that doesn’t mean they know the details, but it’s hard to deny that something is there so close to the eye or terror.

I also think there’s a difference between being aware that there are traitors and heretics that worship something called Chaos, and quite another to be aware that daemons are real. I think the Grey Knights and the purging of populations is more when a case involves actual warp incursions and daemonic manifestations as opposed to chaos cultists and traitors.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/29 05:31:05


 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




New York City

I never liked the idea that majority of Imperium is oblivious to the existence of Chaos. It seems much too prevalent a force/theme for most people to not know.

I will forever remain humble because I know I could have less.
I will always be grateful because I remember I've had less. 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Ever seen a government agency try to restrict access to sexual content? The Grey Knights and others' attempts at stopping the truth about Chaos from getting around is obviously ineffectual given how often chaos cults pop up.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






There's definitely a difference between civilian and military when it comes to "knowing" about Chaos. With civilians you can pass a cult off as just that, heretics to the Imperial faith.
Soldiers need actual Intel, as much as they are allowed that is, and would be told "these soldiers belong to the Great Enemy, make sure you kill them because you don't want to be a prisoner".
I would say say that it entirely depends on where you are in the galaxy. Terra pre-Rift most civilians wouldn't have the slightest clue about Chaos and even after Daemons invaded they were told it was Xenos. Cadia on the other hand would be very much aware of Chaotic influence at the very least in the general population, especially since there's this huge Warp Storm over your head at all times.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/29 07:20:26


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






+1 for there being a fair difference between a guardsman and a civilian. Someone toiling in a hive city needs to be complacent and think their rulers are all powerful and in control, so hearing about chaos is going to need to be stopped.

Just imagine someone who's been forced into lifetime service in a factory, barely fed enough to survive and knowing this is their lot for the rest of their life, hearing about a chaos cult which is all about pleasure and comfort and excess and all those lovely things, who are fighting their overlords?

Meanwhile the guardsmen are much more patriotic (generally supporting the imperium through choice rather than "because if you don't we'll shoot you, reanimate you and then send you to battle to be shot again"), and also are fighting the daemons. If a platoon of guardsmen are good enough to fight daemons and survive, you aren't going to have them all executed. So guardsmen knowing about daemons is expected, but civilians not knowing is an excellent bit of gritty evil for the imperium to use for control, necessary to keeping the imperium alive.

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

In one of the Cain books - him and his Valhallan regiment are aware of Chaos and have to brief their allied regiments on it (Tallarn?), and one of the allied commanders has a religious meltdown (IIRC).
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





IIRC one of the latest novels point blank says that following the opening of the great rift the IoM's basicly admitted it's not even possiable to pretend chaos doesn't exist anymore. that said, there are differant LEVELS of knowledge out there.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Don't forget the scale of the Imperium is basically mind boggling to us.

A single hive city can have a greater population than the whole of Planet Earth today. And the Imperium has many, many worlds and many Hive Cities.


There are worlds which have never had a mustering for the Imperial Guard; which have never seen war or strife or turmoil. And there are worlds picked over so many times in war between forces that they are a wasteland.



In general when we read something about the "Imperium at large" its an idealised concept that will apply to many worlds, perhaps sometimes a majority (to some degree) but which won't really apply to every world




Also consider that Chaos in itself has many levels to it. It's not all demons and mutations and the Chaos Realm. Indeed there are many who work for chaos who have no clue about the upper levels, they just know they've got a gun and that they are fighting against the oppression of the Imperium over them and their people. Dave also has a strange tentacle now, but that's no mutation from Chaos Warp Energies, that's just over exposure to radiation in the family, he's a muto.

So a lot of Chaos elements can be hidden, the idea of Demons and Devils and such being actually real. Those are the kind of things that the average civilian won't know about. Even if they do its not something they are likely to believe.




In the end yes I'd wager most of the Imperium citizens don't know all that much about real Chaos and what it is and what its capable of. Even within the military there will be divisions that hardly encounter it or onyl encounter it in a light manner and won't have a full grasp, even in the upper ranks. When you're on the frontlines against Orks every year you don't have time to learn much else. Meanwhile there will be huge regiments that know all about Chaos and how to fight against it, with all the mental scaring and damage that fighting insanity like Chaos will bring


Things that, if they ever get to retire, will be horror tales to kids; legends to grand kids; myths to great grand kids etc....

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Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Clearly these phamplets are meant for somebody. Presumably someone knows about Chaos.


[Thumb - reg-std-2-dec-1.jpg]

[Thumb - reg-std-2-dec-2.jpg]


   
Made in gb
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend





Port Carmine

To be fair, thats a 'fourth wall-breaking' meta joke, pointing out how similar Flesh Tearers and World Eaters are.

Somebody producing that in-setting would be heretical.

VAIROSEAN LIVES! 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Yeah, Regimental Standard is for laughs not serious background addition. It's poking fun at the sometimes silly rules of the Imperial Guard i.e. this Dog outranks you Guardsman, show him the proper respect and say that he is "a very good boy, sir".
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Gert wrote:
Yeah, Regimental Standard is for laughs not serious background addition. It's poking fun at the sometimes silly rules of the Imperial Guard i.e. this Dog outranks you Guardsman, show him the proper respect and say that he is "a very good boy, sir".


Actually that one is normal. Dogs tend to have an NCO status or a "higher rank than their handler" in a good few armies. At least modern dogs for war where they are a highly trained investment brought in for their specific skills.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






But do soldiers have to salute the dogs and take orders from them? That's kind of the angle Regimental Standard goes for.
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




dorset

 Gert wrote:
But do soldiers have to salute the dogs and take orders from them? That's kind of the angle Regimental Standard goes for.


normally, no, but they can be charged (ie court martialled) for mistreating them (via "striking a superior NCO" statutes).

Most handlers are junior NCOs, so a rank up would still at most be a sergeant.

many regimental mascots are also "on the books" with a service number and rank (this is an admirative convenience). The Royal Welsh regiment in the UK have a goat mascot (for reasons i truly do not understand). normally its a lance corporal (very roughly, "fire team leader/squad 2nd in command" for reference of authority), but several have been temporally demoted down to private for misconduct (the one i know of wandered off during a parade and started eating flowers on the inspecting generals stand), though he got promoted again some time later (yes, their is SUPPOSED to be a handler with them, i dont know what happened to that poor bugger....).


the regi standard is just taking it to the logical extreme with the "Must salute and follow orders form a dog" angle. that said, apprantly the fusilliers of the royal Welch had to brace up to attention when the goat walked past.....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/29 13:29:08


To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Coven of XVth 2000pts
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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Overread wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Yeah, Regimental Standard is for laughs not serious background addition. It's poking fun at the sometimes silly rules of the Imperial Guard i.e. this Dog outranks you Guardsman, show him the proper respect and say that he is "a very good boy, sir".


Actually that one is normal. Dogs tend to have an NCO status or a "higher rank than their handler" in a good few armies. At least modern dogs for war where they are a highly trained investment brought in for their specific skills.


I believe the reason for that is such that if the handler ever struck or abused the dog, they would be dishonorably discharged for striking a superior officer.

Army's come a long way from strapping bombs to dogs trained to find and crawl under tanks.

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






I would just quit if I got told I was outranked by a Goat
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




dorset

 Gert wrote:
I would just quit if I got told I was outranked by a Goat


bah, better a goat than some 22 year old Rupert fresh form sandhurst. at least the goat knows it doesn't no anything.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
 
   
 
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