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Hoping that the SCE continue to bomb sales-wise so that by 5th edition GW is forced to give another faction the hero treatment.

I understand the argument that GW wants an easy to paint/low model count starter army, but SCE have obviously failed to capture hearts and minds. Even the slick armor redesigns couldn't save Dominion from the massive discount bin.

Feels like Seraphon could step into the breach with big models that are forgiving to new painters. Armor clad dwarves? Honestly, I'm up for anything...

 kodos wrote:
for quality, not a really a problem but than it depends what you want.
Like literal miniatures for gaming, GW is not the one to use anyway. Models for painting collecting, they are good but not the best.

what they do is design, you won't find any other company doing Stormcast, same as you want find other companies doing Gundam but this is something different.
if you just want a Dragon to paint and put on the shelf, you want a Dragon to play a game with it, no problem finding better and/or cheaper alternatives in plastic to GW, if you want the Celestant Prime, of course no one else makes them

Fair enough, their designs in context of their settings are the main draw. It also depends on how recent their sculpts are. As you said, there is not a single proper dragon available from GW that I'd personally be interested in today, but on the other hand there is no better elven infantry around from other manufacturers, and those are still fairly generic designs.

In Dominions case its more GW WAAAAAY over produced to avoid another Indomitus situation. Added to that is the fact that the second half of the Dominion box, The Kruleboyz, have basically sucked the whole edition is more the reason why its still kicking around.

 Irbis wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Stormcasts are likely to receive updated armour kits for most of the entries, so you'll likely be able to use your old models as substitutes.

Nope. This is two editions worth of models. Unless you believe Stormcast will receive 50+ releases this edition (and zero new stuff, too, but we know Ruination is a thing and will devour at least half of releases this edition) replacing this will take at least till 6th edition and that's with minimal new things.

Remove the single characters and the list goes down to eight units and a warmachine. We've already seen a replacement for one of those and the edition haven't started yet, so I assume at least the Prosecutors might get a mark update, since they're the only flying infantry in the range. Judicators might get ditched in favour of Vigilors, and Paladins might not come back if Anihillators are meant to be the Termi equivalent, which would make using them as counts as really easy. That leaves the Sacrosanct, which is admittedly half the kits and includes a great cav unit, but that's a far cry from taking up all release slots in two editions.

 Irbis wrote:

Unless you believe Stormcast will receive 50+ releases this edition (and zero new stuff, too, but we know Ruination is a thing and will devour at least half of releases this edition) replacing this will take at least till 6th edition and that's with minimal new things.

Keep the hyperbole down, there are 23 units being "retired" we know some of these are getting resculpted already, a chunk are special characters and a fair few character models that exist largely for the sakes of it.

Had it been anything else, sure, you can count it as some other Stormcast with bow/spear/axe/hammer/sword, fine. But Sacrosant? They are literally magic wing of the army and nothing else in the range has similar fun/flexibility/divergent rules as them. It's like telling Grey Knight player after the army was squatted to pretend they are Ultramarines or something now and be happy you can count all these terminators as tactical squads now

Again, you're confusing rules with models. The rules going might suck, but then maybe the magic rules are different in 4th and they wouldn't function how you're expecting either way. Outside of that a model with a shield and hammer is a model with a shield and hammer here. Don't mistake this for a lack of sympathy, I understand that losing the special rules is a shame, but it doesn't render the models useless.

But the GW idiocy goes far deeper here. They are also squatting engineers and artillery. What are we supposed to proxy them as? Thin air?

Fair

Cavalry characters, gone. Frak you if you liked gryph cavalry and invested into something to lead/buff it.

There still is one in the Lord-Aquilor?

Dozen characters, gone (these might eventually get re-releases but I am strangely sure all these named characters won't be getting them and your models are dead anyway till GW can be arsed to make a replacement so you have rules to proxy old model as). Best looking Stormcast cavalry, all the Dracoline riders, gone.

"Character with big weapon" is an easy proxy.

Centerpiece models, Aventis and Astreia, gone. I mean, Aventis is frakking 130$, 260$ if you bought second model to use as generic leader - that's a really big chunk of change, and even if you wanted to proxy it as something, there is nothing in Stormcast range with similar size and base, rules be damned

Aventis is on the same base and rough model size as Ionus if you need a proxy.

I wanted to build Dracoline wing of my army this edition, Astreia + 3/4 boxes of regular dudes as I honestly like how they look and was tired of slow melee dudes - now I either won't bother, or will buy second hand from other pissed people to make sure GW won't see any of that money.

The second hand models won't have rules support going forwards either, you're essentially mad at something you haven't bought in 6 years not being there for you to buy, you've lost nothing here.

I also don't know why I bothered to grab extra starter boxes to get more artillery - silly me, I guess, not expecting brand new models I looked the look of to be gone just like that

This does suck though.

Bravo, really good way to inspire confidence of your customers here James - and all they had to do to mitigate most of this is to say clearly what will be getting replacements soon and why they decided to ruin the best part of the army. They could also oh, not touch starter models and centerpieces (as these will upset players the most) and only announce retirement of boxes shortly after refresh models were ready - but no, that would actually require 5 minutes worth of effort to communicate with people who pay your wages!

Conversely you're asking them to sell models, which anyone educated in GW-fu knows are being replaced and will create feelsbads when people inevitably buy the "wrong" version. I'd argue they spent the 5 minutes communicating and the unwritten context, whilst dumb, is clear to anyone who has followed any GW products any length of time. There isn't a singular "win" here for them, with negatives to all options.

Man, I literally just finished painting all my Sacrosanct models, which is my entire SCE army, so this feels like GW just hates me specifically.

Retiring old kits that are getting replacements is fine, but throwing out an entire chamber line of relatively recent models, without any replacements on the way, hurts a lot.

 Latmin wrote:
Man, I literally just finished painting all my Sacrosanct models, which is my entire SCE army, so this feels like GW just hates me specifically.

Retiring old kits that are getting replacements is fine, but throwing out an entire chamber line of relatively recent models, without any replacements on the way, hurts a lot.

We don't know what is getting a new kit yet.

Dudeface wrote:

We don't know what is getting a new kit yet.

GW's announcement post specifies the Sacrosanct line among the kits that will only be legal to play for a year and then moved to Legends.

 Latmin wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

We don't know what is getting a new kit yet.

GW's announcement post specifies the Sacrosanct line among the kits that will only be legal to play for a year and then moved to Legends.

It feels like we have officially moved to physical models as DLC for a videogame with no expectation for real support beyond that title/edition.

A non sarcastic F in the chat to everyone affected, it always sucks to have the rug pulled from under you this way. Glad I got out of Stormcast while the getting was good. Shame the Plague Monks aren't getting dumped, they're as bad as Rat Ogres.

The worst thing is that GW could have (should have) coordinated this shutdown of production from the factory wtih their release marketing. This would have had WAY less of a blow if they'd previewed 50% of the new stormcast and skaven models in advance. Right now we've only had the Liberator shown off (and one skaven model IF you hunt through forums and social groups)

It must be said, it is possible there is a Thunderstrike Ballista coming. It might just be one of the easy build kits that comes out alongside the new edition but isn't in the core box, and that would enable you to use the old ones much more easily.

But part of the mess of this is the bad comms of retiring some kits and not making it clear which ones are getting replaced and which aren't.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/05/the-anatomy-of-a-warscroll-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar/

Wow. Nagash basically gets to nuke one hero or monster per turn on a 4+. Cool(?)

this seems... interesting? Nagash's passive ability hints at some sort of change to magic, but otherwise this all seems reasonable. OC as a dedicated stat is one of the best changes that 10th edition made, so i'm glad AOS is following that, but this otherwise seems pretty standard for a shakeup

OH GOD the "hide a dice" person has been allowed back into the rules department!

 Overread wrote:
OH GOD the "hide a dice" person has been allowed back into the rules department!

i'm actually super happy to see that rule return, because it shows they aren't taking things too seriously with the rules this edition. even if there's going to be streamlining, we're still getting something as weird as this on a prominent model

I see the silly rules from AoS 1.0 get-you-by datasheets are making a return.

Better start growing out my mustache ASAP

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Wow. Nagash basically gets to nuke one hero or monster per turn on a 4+. Cool(?)

And if 2 Nagash meet each other, which player will be able to shout "I nuke your Nagash!" first

 Overread wrote:
The worst thing is that GW could have (should have) coordinated this shutdown of production from the factory wtih their release marketing. This would have had WAY less of a blow if they'd previewed 50% of the new stormcast and skaven models in advance. Right now we've only had the Liberator shown off (and one skaven model IF you hunt through forums and social groups)

What makes you think they didn't? More likely they just chose to do it this way, for whatever reason. It's the same Marketing making the announcement about models leaving the range as are doing all the previews for the new edition.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
Wow. Nagash basically gets to nuke one hero or monster per turn on a 4+. Cool(?)

In combat, so try to stay out of arms reach of the god of death!

Not sure how I feel about that rule.

 Overread wrote:
OH GOD the "hide a dice" person has been allowed back into the rules department!

I find this development enjoyable. For all the wrong reasons.

What's the point of playing hide-the-die when you could simply roll it?

 His Master's Voice wrote:
What's the point of playing hide-the-die when you could simply roll it?

no point really... its just fun. who doesnt like to play pick a hand... AND DIE!

 His Master's Voice wrote:
What's the point of playing hide-the-die when you could simply roll it?

gotta be a little silly with it

New story https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/05/dawnbringer-chronicles-xxvii-a-feast-for-ages/

 His Master's Voice wrote:
What's the point of playing hide-the-die when you could simply roll it?

If I had to give the designers the benefit of the doubt and not just assume all the drugs GW's financial success buys made their mushy brains even mushier, the thought behind it may be that convention puts a 4+ die roll in the hands of Nagash's owner. If you let the opposing player make a decision, that players gets to feel good about being put in control of the fate of his model and better yet, gets to make a choice instead of leaving it to the whims of a die (not that it changes the odds or anything).

I see it as mitigation. Nuke abilities are rarely fun for the one on the receiving end, but GW wants to have gods and demigods in their game whose power is adequately represented in the rules. If you won't remove the ability, you resort to psychological tricks to make it feel as good as possible instead.

Man that Liberator Warscroll

"A Champion cannot replace their weapon"

Well that gives somewhat of a reason why they were nuked.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 CMLR wrote:
Warcry and Underworlds culling for StD (now this hurts the most if they are not just removing the warscrolls and they are just deleting the models from their other games ranges),

On the webstore, while the Stormcast and Skaven stuff is marked 'Last Chance to Buy', the Chaos boys are not - potentially this means the models will remain for Warcry use, but just be moved out of the AoS battletome. Alternatively, GW didn't update the webstore correctly.

That's how i read it. They're being retired from the STD tome, not Warcry itself.

That’s how I read it as well.
But also, surely they can still be used as models in StD armies.
Just whatever their generic line troops unit is.
Maruaders whatever they are in AoS now. Just use them as those.

 Shadow Walker wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/05/the-anatomy-of-a-warscroll-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-age-of-sigmar/

Am I correct in reading that Liberator warscroll as having no discernible profile for the dual hammers both of the pictured miniatures are armed with?

The +1 save from the shields has been baked in with the update, but there's nothing about the actual visual representation they chose to go with in the article about how everything is very simple and easy to understand now?