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so Ive not played a game since third edition.
so bear that in mind.
I also dont own a 40k rulebook.
I DO however own the latest(?) astra militarum (guard) codex.

I'm confused about commanders.

back in the day platoon level commanders (typically L.T) or company level commanders (typically captains majors etc...) and even regimental commanders (colonels and up basically) HAD to take a command squad of four staff with them. usually a mix of specialists or an excuse to add more special or heavy weapons into the army as his personal guard.

it seems this is no longer required?

is it recomended? or not?

some folks even say dont take platoon commanders at all and just take company commanders. whats with that?
it makes no sense at all. well fluff-wise anyhow. surely you need to take platoon commander for platoon level control and then company commander to control all the platoons?
is it just one of those gameplay loophole things?

in the old days of second and third I remember you HAD to take a platoon commander and at LEAST two squads of infantry as a SINGLE troops choice.
as far as I can tell each squad is a single troops choice. does it even work that way nowadays? gah! confusing.

Yes, Im out of touch and in no intent of wasting money on more books at present as I'm out of work again so every penny counts. I am however knocking up a new guard army on the cheap so was wondering if any of you can kinda 'fill-in-the-blanks' on a few of these misunderstandings of mine, allowing me to make an army thats not only suitably fluffy but also rules-true...

its for a trencher themed army not diss-similar to dkok in visuals and style.
lots of infantry as a base and some elite in the form of shotgun guys (would have been veterans back in the day but I'd say dkok engineers counts-as I suppose now. as thats a tasty unit) and some homebrew-grenadiers (in the style of the rest of the force) for counts-as stormtroopers for a bit of flavour.
topped off with some artillery in the back. essentially a mass of lasgunners supported by indirect fire artillery and accented with some specialist hard hitting elites.
So, anyway, I'm running the infantry squads as barebones using just lasguns and a grenadelauncher. the sgts just being armed with laspistols (I'd have preferred lasguns but just recently found out that unless you're a dkok watchmaster thats out too now... grumble grumble)
I don't put heavy weapons in or comlinks as I'd prefer to spend the points on more squads rather than pimping the basic infantry.
hence the gls as special weapons. cheap AF and good mid range weapon without the expense of plasma or the limited range of melta...
back in the day the heavy weapons squads used to be part of the command platoon so that may end up being the same here down the line, do some as a seperate division within the force...
anyway I digress.
getting round to thinking about the command aspect of the force and this has stumped me a bit.
dont want to waste money or time on uselessness so thought Id pose this musing to you all.

I like the idea of doing a command squad for the platoon commander (an L.t who is to be simply armed with a bolter)
Although pointless (rules wise) I like the idea of a 'first-sgt' model. as the lieutenant's x-o he'd be the l.t's right hand man and a cool excuse to model a hard as nails sgt thats less genereic than the guys in the infantry squad (and perhaps a way of using the sgt with lasgun I've made already ) but rules wise he'd just be another lasgun armed guy.
perhaps a couple of special weapons and just a medic for flavour? ​
to me platoon command is little more than an extention of the platoon itself and is better when not too ott. so no banners and the like.keep it more pragmatic and sensible. leave all the pomp and circumstance to regimental level command...

also (unless Ive missed something) whats to stop you taking a tempestus command squad with your company commander, instead of a basic command squad, so he can have hellgun armed personal bodyguards for a bit of flavour?
hell if so even the platoon commanders can do this, no?

obviously I'm missing some key information thats imparted in the main rulebook or overlooking something in the guard codex...

You still have your commanders, Company and Platoon varieties, but they are no longer attached to their squads.

Command squads are now 4-men, so you can still use it straight out of the box, but it is now a separate unit. Same with Tempestus units.

Yep. Commanders and other character models were split off their units. The units are still a thing, but the commander is now not part of them.
Squads still have sergeants though. Non-characters are still in units.

It does mean that you can take a 10-model unit on a Chimera, and still have room for a boss and a buffer.
Piling an Ogryn squad out of a transport with a priest and a platoon commander can make quite a mess.

You can now take a platoon as it used to be, or an elites-only army.
Armoured armies, made up of only vehicles, is easier now.
Even without taking Tempestus storm troopers, you can go full drop-squads.

Yeah, you need that rule book

 osjclatchford wrote:
so Ive not played a game since third edition.
so bear that in mind.
I also dont own a 40k rulebook.
I DO however own the latest(?) astra militarum (guard) codex.

Basically the Dataslates are their own thing and you just have to follow rules for assembling your army.

Get your free download of the Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules right here:

https://warhammer40000.com/rules/

wow, thanks guys. thanks especially for the core rules download link. thats gonna help A LOT!

also, studying this further It seems to me that its down to points spent vs special abilities wanted to as to wether you want to use command squads or not. its also down to personal choice about wanting medics, comlinks or standards or not on the table or just another excuse to put some cheap plasma or snipers on the table! LOL plus its fluffy and thats another very important factor for the non-overly-competitive gamer and that should always come first I suppose.

I still would like one question answered, if you'll indulge me, though;

as the commanders and command squads are seperate units, is it possible to give the company commander a tempestus command squad like I suggested or have I still got that wrong?
I only ask as ive never seen it before in pics or lists online and think it could be viable. tecnically and visually speaking.
thats bearing in mind that he is not tempestus himself.
just thought it would be fun to model the company commander with a squad of hell-gun armed, carapace armoured personal-guard storm-troopers.
if thats possible that is..?
it would be as if he's hand picked some heavily armed and armoured bastards from the stormtroopers to watch his back. only the best will do kinda thing...

what say you?

also what say you on the worth of command squads vs no command squads and just commanders? I'd love to hear some varied view-points to be honest...

The AM Codex spells out on page 132 that you can have one <Regiment> Command Squad for each <Regiment> Officer in that Detachment. So the Command Squad has to match the Regiment of the officer - hence you cannot take a Tempestus Command Squad unless you take a Tempestor Prime as well.

Now, there is nothing stopping you taking a Company Commander and a Tempestor Prime with a Tempestus Command Squad. The Tempestus Command Squad could walk around with the Company Commander. The Company Commander, though, could not issue Orders to the Tempestus Command Squad - the Regiment has to match for that.

fair enough.
regular guardsmen in the command squad it is then...

I'll just make them look a bit more elite but use regular rules...

that'll be fine...

Command squads are veterans, so have some better stats (BS 3+). I have been looking to make a sniper squad out of one.
They handle camping on objectives well, being cheap, and makes the sniper rifle more useful.

Also, the vox caster and medikit work well with a commander floating around them.

As for how to build your army, get Battlescribe. It will let you play with detachments, and show how to slot units in.