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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut






The other day I tuned into a tabletop titans stream to find one of the hosts scrambling between playing the game on stream and having their friend furiously refresh the GW webstore in a futile attempt to secure a limited edition Ork box and it really hit me: GW is making a big mistake by leaving these arms-length Warhammer advertisement platforms in the cold.

A lot of these studios have made significant capital investments in order to produce professional advertisements for games workshop products. All at their own personal expense. The production value is clearly premium and their runway to profit, or merely break-even, must be quite long. Compare what they do for free rivals the content published by Eavy Metal, GWs own internal advertising platform that they pay for.

I also understand that there is assuredly an internal GW powerpoint that clearly spells out to management and the C-suite that by allowing these studios to advertise GW merchandise for free those tremendous marketing and advertisement costs do not appear on GW's quarterly financial statements as expenses.

This means they are hitting a market/demographic at no cost to GW beyond trivial extra merchandise they have lying around a warehouse that they periodically gift to the adoring fans! It is a good move that makes a noticeable impact on the financial statements of even a large cap organisation like GW. Someone got promoted for that presentation. Cunning business strategy, Sun Tzu, Machiavelli, blah blah ...

HOWEVER, take my advice (my first tip is free and subsequent business analyst consultation sessions begin at $200 USD per hour. Any GW market research folk who lurk around here feel free to PM me!) and open up the wallet a bit.

Right now business is riding high and GW feels invincible, prices for product continue to rise and inflation is here! (Looking at you Pokemon cards!). Now is the time to really bank on the goodwill or "fan frenzy" for when markets shift and consumers have less discretionary spending. Don't burn people's zeal out of them - you will need their energy for times when the market contracts severely.

I know 40k is the juggernaught that is designed to be almost religiously worshipped by fans, but recognise that its popularity could easily find its way to the realm of AoS under the right economic conditions.

I use AoS as an example because GW seemed to send a Dominion box out to everybody with a YouTube channel. They had to lose there in order to build a fantasy community after ummm...you know the history there. So its not that GW doesn't support their product through the "influencer" arms-length marketing. Its rather that they are exceptionally tight-fisted when it comes to gifting anything related to 40k. In contrast to AoS, 40k influencers get comparatively table scraps.

I mean, hell, you're letting this young guy ON CAMERA struggle to buy merchandise from you on a channel with 100,000 subscribers? Instead of having someone reach out and say, "hey we will reserve one for you! I mean you still need to buy it (no free lunches!), but we will reserve you the opportunity to buy it!"

To me, this is surprisingly bad judgement.


The candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. Don't senselessly throw all your zealots into the maw of chaos. You will need them when all the other units fail their morale test and flee the battlefield.
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






GW does send express copies to social media influencers, in the modern jargon, plenty. Did Tabletop Titans receive early copies of anything else? Or, have they always had to pay out of pocket and buy it at the same time as everyone else in contrast to other major batrep channels.

Ask yourself, why might they be different from the others?

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Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Also Tabletop Titans may already have secured any number of said boxes. Drama of any kind makes for more interesting videos.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






 Flinty wrote:
Also Tabletop Titans may already have secured any number of said boxes. Drama of any kind makes for more interesting videos.


Now thats a solid idea. "Battlereport 560 - Space marines vs cherry flavored space marines" as a title vs... "Trying to order Beastsnaggas during batrep GONE WRONG GONE SEXUAL [DRAMA]!!" Exaggerating of course, I don't watch them or know what they name their videos. But drama does indeed sell.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/19 19:16:51


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

I find it humorous that they'd be trying to order in the 1st place.
You'd think these guys - whose business is playing 40k - would already have a secure source.
I mean, I (a completely random player), who spends $, surrounded by 3 very good local shops, do....

Conclusion: It's just part of the show & not worth worrying about.
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

Don't care at all about social media influencers, more concerned about normal customers who cannot get stuff because of the new release model.

   
Made in gb
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?






Because people who play Warhammer and also do social media stuff like YouTube or Twitch are a dime a dozen.
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User



Nottingham

Given there's a whole other thread about people not being able to get hold of new releases I'm not sure there's much to be said for "gw should be giving stuff away to influencers, they need the exposure!".

   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






2 factors,

1st depends on the size of the channel and their relationship with GW. That said here i I guarantee tabletop titans got at least 1 box and possibly 2-3.

2nd even with getting the free sample boxes they likely want more boxes to do giveaways with. On this factor I was personally helping trying to get into the queue for some friends to get copies after i had secured so they can offer them as prizes for tournaments and parteon giveaways etc.

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

Maybe that's the secret - to get stuff you need to sign on to be an influencer.

And you know what? Overall a kick ass media set up is likely cheaper than keeping current with GW games.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





There's no way in hell GW didn't give TTT a box. They need to play the new beast snaggas against an obviously terrible Necrons list, after all.
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





Literally why would you care? Warhammer Influencers are basically just PR guys for GW. If they all stop producing videos tomorrow I wouldn't be the least bit upset.


 
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

 Da Boss wrote:
Don't care at all about social media influencers, more concerned about normal customers who cannot get stuff because of the new release model.


This 100x.

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Is... is this sarcasm?
Because it reads like 'woe the privileged!'

Most of the 40k 'influencer' crowd does get stuff for free. Most even acknowledging it.

If someone's seriously trying to make 'live'* drama out of the preorder, they must have bitten the hand that feeds them (or they're faking it).

*for a certain value of live, that includes pre-recording and upload times.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Voss wrote:
Is... is this sarcasm?
Because it reads like 'woe the privileged!'

Most of the 40k 'influencer' crowd does get stuff for free. Most even acknowledging it.

If someone's seriously trying to make 'live'* drama out of the preorder, they must have bitten the hand that feeds them (or they're faking it).

*for a certain value of live, that includes pre-recording and upload times.


agreed. it's hard to feel much sympathy because influencers didn't get something free for once.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Malicious Mandrake




I must be looking at different table top titans. I watched the stream trailer. Nice models.

Nobody's MAKING these guys do this. And no thanks, I don't want to send them 5 bucks a month so I can get (amongst other things "free" chat emojis).

They're in it for the money as well as the fun. No sympathy for non existent GW cruelty.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I think you guys missed the point of OP. It's not about giving monetizing influencers more money, it's about them not investing ~$200 to get advertisement that would cost them thousands of dollars elsewhere.

In that regard GW screwed up big time for the beast snaggas, even goonhammer, who write pages of pages of mostly positive stuff over every piece of paper sailing out of the GW HQ haven't received a copy of the codex yet. That's a huge missed opportunity.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





 Jidmah wrote:
I think you guys missed the point of OP. It's not about giving monetizing influencers more money, it's about them not investing ~$200 to get advertisement that would cost them thousands of dollars elsewhere.

In that regard GW screwed up big time for the beast snaggas, even goonhammer, who write pages of pages of mostly positive stuff over every piece of paper sailing out of the GW HQ haven't received a copy of the codex yet. That's a huge missed opportunity.


Don't care. GW treats its own staff like crap, why would influencers expect to be treated any better?


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

GW doesn't have to ensure the easy joy of every single person with a youtube channel. At a certain point you don't need to market any more to reach your target market and GW already has hit and gone beyond their production capacity (during corona - they do have their new factory which should resolve things once covid safe work practice can end).

Furthermore most of these types of channel are marketing within the wargaming bubble. So its marketing to people who already know about GW products and likely saw the unboxing on the Twitch or GW feeds or the 7 days a week marketing GW does through Warhammer community or any one of dozens of other news and youtube channels around the hobby.


GW doesn't need to invest more in reaching out to more content creators to throw loads of free things at them. GW isn't a smaller firm fighting hard to get a place; they have the place and they have by far and away the most dominant position.

The sorts of place more valuable to GW to invest into (free stock is investing) is things like school outreach programs; hobby club support; tournaments; events etc... GW's most valuable means of marketing is to try and focus as much as they can on OTHER markets to draw new people in. If anything TT aren't who GW need to sweet talk; TT already do everything GW needs and more. What GW need is to reach out to other geek channels that might not focus on wargaming alone.






A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Thadin wrote:
GW does send express copies to social media influencers, in the modern jargon, plenty. Did Tabletop Titans receive early copies of anything else? Or, have they always had to pay out of pocket and buy it at the same time as everyone else in contrast to other major batrep channels.

Ask yourself, why might they be different from the others?


They do get codexes. Not sure about boxes. Odds are they will get ork codex when it's RELEASED in any case. In future.

Another thing. They will get codex in advance and are allowed to talk about it, play, answer questions but not before it is in their HAND. They got charadron book 2 late(stupid post) so despite knowing rules inside out already they were legally not allowed to talk about it, play with it etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 09:30:36


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 Sim-Life wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
I think you guys missed the point of OP. It's not about giving monetizing influencers more money, it's about them not investing ~$200 to get advertisement that would cost them thousands of dollars elsewhere.

In that regard GW screwed up big time for the beast snaggas, even goonhammer, who write pages of pages of mostly positive stuff over every piece of paper sailing out of the GW HQ haven't received a copy of the codex yet. That's a huge missed opportunity.


Don't care. GW treats its own staff like crap, why would influencers expect to be treated any better?


You clearly failed to understand the topic.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Wot Overread dun said

Although I'm not sure GW trying to tap other channels is in their interest lest people find out about, other games...

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





Hi everyone,

thanks for the interesting replies! I love especially the beginning of this thread that produced some challenging ideas asking me to think deeply about whether or not what I am watching is authentic/staged/dramatic theatre!

The Marshall McLuhan in me loves that idea...in a world mediated by screens indeed the distinction between performance and genuine does seem to collapse into a tangled morass.

Alas, as much as I would love a good strategic angle, I think the answer is a lot more simple: GW is just dropping the ball on some easy big wins.

The reason they're dropping the ball is because they are drowning in money right now and are letting easy dollars slip through the cracks as the money tree continues to drench them in $.

I don't watch a lot of warhammer youtube streams, but lets take two of the bigger ones: Tactics and Titans.

Both of these studios have sunk, easily, $100,000 USD into the production of their channel. And I think that's being conservative. Microphones, cameras, audio/video software, GW models. These costs add up. Not to mention all the human labour required to create the final product.

$100,000 capital investment is nothing to sneeze at, even GW will pay careful attention internally to how that sum of money may be deployed one way or another.

Tabletop Tactics have almost tragi-comedically failed to get ANY new codex ahead of release from GW, despite being merely a few hours away from the Nottingham HQ!

These channels are not aimed at introducing noobs to the hell-world of collecting multiple 2,000 point warhammer armies. They are aimed at a prime target for GW: getting existing warhammer players to buy more models and, critically, to get us lifelong suckers to pay more for something that in the past cost much less.

In that regard we haven't even come close to hitting the price ceiling for GW models (but thats a topic for another time).
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

You've still not really shown how TT getting a codex 1 week in advance of retail is going to generate extra sales for GW products.


You start out mentioning that someone, who was a friend of TT, was rushing to order the new duel set and almost missed it (or did). That kind of shows that even if TT had had a free set, GW wouldn't have seen any more sales for that investment. They already sold out of it. They already have maximum market saturation in that regard. Giving TT a free set won't have increased their sales - if physically wouldn't be any higher than full sell out on pre-order day.


Which is the point, GW doesn't need to increase their sales to current customers. Current customers are already sold. Providing pre-release info to them at this stage is purely keeping them eager to buy, but its not essential when GW already does their own pre-release shows and information. Fans of TT are likely reading the Warhammer community page fairly regularly. Heck a lot of 3rd party news sites just re-hash the GW website contents.



Right now GW can't meet demand; or can't do so easily. Once covid relaxes its grip and GW can operate at full capacity once more we might see (or should see) things improve significantly. We'll also see GW sales to current customers lower somewhat as people get back to normal life and start travelling; eating out; putting money and fuel in the car for commuting etc....


Right now GW doesn't need to tap their current market any more; their current market is doing great.


If anything its a waste for GW to focus marketing too heavily on that market. The current market has a limit point on how much it can buy and how many clubs it can support and for how long. GW's best investment in the future is new generations of gamers; people who aren't gamers now. That's where the best investment - drawing people into the hobby not simply recycling people around the hobby (esp when there's no competition of significant size "stealing" customers away from gW)

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Made in ca
Dipping With Wood Stain






 Gregor Samsa wrote:


Alas, as much as I would love a good strategic angle, I think the answer is a lot more simple: GW is just dropping the ball on some easy big wins.

The reason they're dropping the ball is because they are drowning in money right now and are letting easy dollars slip through the cracks as the money tree continues to drench them in $.

I don't watch a lot of warhammer youtube streams, but lets take two of the bigger ones: Tactics and Titans.

Both of these studios have sunk, easily, $100,000 USD into the production of their channel. And I think that's being conservative. Microphones, cameras, audio/video software, GW models. These costs add up. Not to mention all the human labour required to create the final product.

$100,000 capital investment is nothing to sneeze at, even GW will pay careful attention internally to how that sum of money may be deployed one way or another.

Tabletop Tactics have almost tragi-comedically failed to get ANY new codex ahead of release from GW, despite being merely a few hours away from the Nottingham HQ!

These channels are not aimed at introducing noobs to the hell-world of collecting multiple 2,000 point warhammer armies. They are aimed at a prime target for GW: getting existing warhammer players to buy more models and, critically, to get us lifelong suckers to pay more for something that in the past cost much less.

In that regard we haven't even come close to hitting the price ceiling for GW models (but thats a topic for another time).


First of all, GW has captured so much of the market share, they could literally not spend another penny on any marketing whatsoever, and still rake in millions of dollars. So it would make little to no difference if influencers were given free copies or not.
The audience that watches these channels is already aware of what GW is doing and what is coming out and when. It’s much more advantageous to the influencer to get an advanced free copy than it is to GW.
Why? Because of the audience already watching the channel. If that channel is one of the first to feature/unbox/review a product close to or on the release date, everyone knows their views, time watched and thumbs will explode like July 4th fireworks.
But GW is already selling out of every new release, sometimes within seconds. Why would they need to sell even more that they don’t have and can’t make more of? It’s better to just move onto the next new thing, because they know that will sell out as well.

Secondly, one can set up a professional video studio for relatively cheap these days. For less than $1000 anyone can have a good set up to shoot professional looking content. And that’s why we see a plethora of channels these days. If the investment was $100k+ as you seem to think it is, we wouldn’t see the number nor range of high quality content out there that we do.
I know this because I ran a channel for years and all one needs is a good camera, mic, computer and software. For less than $1000 anyone can be an ‘influencer’.

That’s why they are not highly valued by GW, but are highly valued by smaller companies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 14:00:27


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I don't think they are callous at all. I think they send out far too much stuff to influencers. Too many two-bit streamers get sent loads of free stuff.

I like tabletop titans a lot (I'm a member), but I have no sympathy for them. They are a business.

Playtesters should be sent copies of rules for free at the very least, as thanks (play testing should be a paid role though).
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

Alas, as much as I would love a good strategic angle, I think the answer is a lot more simple: GW is just dropping the ball on some easy big wins.

The reason they're dropping the ball is because they are drowning in money right now and are letting easy dollars slip through the cracks as the money tree continues to drench them in $.

I don't watch a lot of warhammer youtube streams, but lets take two of the bigger ones: Tactics and Titans.

Both of these studios have sunk, easily, $100,000 USD into the production of their channel. And I think that's being conservative. Microphones, cameras, audio/video software, GW models. These costs add up. Not to mention all the human labour required to create the final product.

$100,000 capital investment is nothing to sneeze at, even GW will pay careful attention internally to how that sum of money may be deployed one way or another.


I can't speak for everyone, but you know what my initial reaction usually is when "influencers" get free codexes, box sets, and such? "Ugh, of course they got a free whatever before release." And that's even if I like the channel. You may have noticed the uproar that the Beast Snaggas box cause because it sold out so quickly everywhere, and many, many, many people who actually wanted one were left out due to limited supply/overwhelming demand. Now imagine how much more upset folks would have been if GW had sent free boxes to 200 Youtube channels/other influencers.

I don't particularly care that the two Youtube channels you mention may have easily sunk $100,000 into their channels; that's a business decision on their part. That doesn't entitle them to free product. If Games Workshop decides to form an agreement with these channels to have them promote product, that's GW's choice. But Titans and Tactics certainly aren't entitled just because they spent X amount of dollars to set up their studios.


For less than $1000 anyone can be an ‘influencer’.


To be fair, you also need a huge audience to be really considered an influencer. There's a big difference between my tiny Youtube channel and a channel like Goobertown Hobbies or Squidmar, who all regularly get tens of thousands of views on their videos. But that's a different conversation altogether.
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






I personally want influencers getting these kits. I ordered my snagga box from a flgs and hopefully get one, but if they do not get enough I will not be blaming content creators for getting them. I would be shocked if they even sent .1% of the total boxes to influencers. the free advertising and hype for the new armies will likely inspire future kit purchases more than the couple of boxes ever would. If miniwargaming decided to do a squig rider campaign you don't think that would inspire more sales than the couple of beastsnagga boxes cost them. When art of war does a session painting up the box and running them as part of a competitive list will they think can do well in tournaments vs other top lists will that nto get people to buy them? Honestly the cost to get the free publicity there is so small for such a huge gain.

As for streaming costs of $1k... that is going to be a pretty low tier setup. i think the $100k is absurd unless you are taking into account labor costs to make videos for years. a decent setup with all the recording gear and a good editing PC is about a $10-20k for what i would call entry level to make high quality content

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Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Bit of a side track but,

I'm a IT luddite but understand the yootoobs magic is linked to click rates and time watched to power the other things you might like suggestion hexadoo, are these stats generally available or kept behind the curtain ? Might explain GWs support or lack thereof on some channels

And of course being old I'm utterly baffled by influenza culture as seems you don't have to be good to be popular, and being popular seems to be a least semi-random (or least semi dressed...)

So as far as GW goes free advertising is free but they certainly have no need to freeby anyone as like a lot of geek culture theres always the freshly keen to fill the ranks

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Turnip Jedi wrote:


And of course being old I'm utterly baffled by influenza culture as seems you don't have to be good to be popular, and being popular seems to be a least semi-random (or least semi dressed...)



It's not different to the popular kids at school.


That said its also linked to communication skills; presentation; time and luck. Sometimes you just make 1 good video or joke and it spreads and suddenly people flock. There's a good many half decent channels that never get a huge following just out of pure chance that their video struck a chord at the right time.

The other option is click-baiting. Which is what you see from places like Spiky Bits - "GW to close down" as the title then a vague reference that a store somewhere is closing. The whole idea being that the outrageous claim gathers attention. OF course its a trick which can easily backfire.

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3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
 
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