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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

So i got into AoS pretty much right before Aos3 was announced (played like 5 games, AoS3 shows up). Played enough of them to realize that the way pestilence works is lots of priest and lots and lots of monks with a random plague claw.

Obviously in 3rd i cant do that now. Skaven can barely benefit from their overwhelming numbers rule (20+ for +1 hit, 30+ for +1 wound) when only clanrats have enough numbers to use that rule w/o being completely unscathed when they charge something and our buffs are not strong enough for a tiny squad to really care.
So now, we can only have 2 squads that have any real number to them and its less than before (30 monks max now, which is double reinforced). Used to get around this by having 40 models and simply more actual units so the 2-3 anti horde stuff couldnt possibly get all of them.
Now i cant seem to keep gak away from my 2 squads and they die instantly as a result. Nothing else is capable of having numbers that even do anything so i feel like once those 2 monk squads die games over. Nevermind the annoyance that the furnace cant move w/o 10 models in a squad nearby, which leaves it totally stranded super easily.

Has anybody been having good luck with skaven lately? there hast to be a way to still be able to play them, i'd be rather miffed if within 4 months of getting into the game my army was nigh unplayable and its starting to feel that way.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Clousseau




I'd post the "first time?" gif for you but thats probably a dick move on my part.

GW does this all the time for years. They rotate army power regularly. An army that is really good one minute can be trash for the next couple years after an edition change or updated army book the next.

Many armies are unplayable in a competitive context. For fun, most armies can do pretty ok, but you have to have a group willing to play for fun and not powergaming lists.

I was a huge chaos player (slaves to darkness) and then when AOS dropped went about 4 years with a trash tier army because slaves to darkness were just plain horrible until very recently. It can be very disheartening to spend a ton of money and time on an army to have it basically binned by the company most notorious for horrible balance of their game, but thats how AOS and 40k operate, and you have to know that going into it so you can just buy a new army and sell off the terrible army to stay competitive. (or be lucky enough to have a for-fun group that is ok playing down to your army and not powergaming their listbuilding)

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/20 03:09:57


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

oh im aware that GW is pretty bad about global balance and things tend to rotate.
I'm just miffed that i basically didnt even get to play with my plastic crack before it became garbage. I played orks for several years and didnt touch them for nearly 3 years when the 7th edition debacle happened, but i didnt feel as upset then as i do now because at least that was 4-5 years into the hobby. Thousands of hours of entertainment with them up to that point...skaven? just the painting part really since those 5 pre-aos3 games i did play werent even finished because we were just spending so much time figuring things out for my weird army (only skaven player in a large area so nobody to ask questions to)

Admittedly part of that was a misconception on my end. Had i been able to find a proper answer to my list-building questions i kept asking in various places i wouldnt have done skaven for that reason alone.

i'm a completionist, as apparent from my sig the armies i collect i tend to get ALL of it. Skaven fundamentally doesnt work when you try to mix clans since clanrats take too much realestate to do it.
But, whats done is done and im just trying to get some work out of them. At this point i think i need to just shelf the pestilence and shift to skyre (both because skyre is the other clan i have stuff for before realizing i cant use them and at least acolytes dont care about being in huge swarm units)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 03:53:26


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

]Just because a new edition has arrived doesn't mean you're forced to play it. So you & yours, or at least some of yours, simply continue to play 2e. At least until everyones 3e tomes arrive.
We've got this going on locally as not everyone has picked up the 3e book/GHB yet. {something about needing the $$ for the MTG: D&D set....} So some games are 2e, some games are 3e. 2-3 hours later it's all good. We played some AoS & had fun.

You could also try simply discussing the issues with those you play with.
You don't like the re-enforcement rule? Well, maybe they don't either & you can agree to play "open/narrative" - but with 99.98% of matched rules otherwise. Or maybe they'll be willing to suspend this rule in exchange for you agreeing to suspend (or add back in) some other rule.
For ex; You want the re-enforcement rule gone? Fine, but I want the generic Grand Alliance rules back.
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





Also bare in mind you will get a tome at some point and things will change again then.

Honestly though, Skaven have been top tier for a long time and giving them a bit of a bump on the head is probably no bad thing. Even so, and even pre 3e tome, it may well not be as bad as it seems right now - you might just still need to find the new strategies to compete, as all of us are trying to do right now.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Pure pestilence isn't going to be that good. No monsters, reinforcement rule. Not that killy anymore in "he who stands last wins" edition.

Skavens as a whole still do good though.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





The challenge will be setting new victory conditions for yourself. It’s understandably very frustrating, but there are ways to learn how to win with a hand tied behind your back. If you really like skaven, double down and see if you can find any possible edge and game it as hard as you can. People who play the factions they love always have more respect than those who power game by spamming cheese. Stay strong!
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Fortunately/unfortunately depending on how you look at it the other half of my skaven army i was collecting seems to not care about the changes.

Skyre.

Theres...almost no reason to reinforce acolytes since Skyre doesnt really have any buffs outside of static auras or the warpstone thing that hurts the hero and buffs 3 units for a phase.

i didnt mean to sound like ultra doom n gloom, im new to AoS and used to 40k so theres a lot of subtle differences im not fully aware of blocking my usual analytical thinking for list building.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in ca
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot






Skryre has no buffs? What?

Vigordust Injector Relic - Give a unit +1 to hit until your next hero phase. Unit takes d3 damage start of your next hero phase. I've always got this relic.

More-More-More Warp Power - CV 8, but you can easily get +1 to cast on Skaven, and Skryre has easy access to rerolling cast attempts. Give a target unit Reroll All Hits and Wounds until the start of the next hero phase.

Note that both of these buffs do not specific melee or missile attacks. That's cause it's both.

Master of Destruction(?) Command Trait: Pick a Skryre unit, they get to reroll hits for the shooting phase.

Overseer of Devastation(?) Command Trait: 3 Weapon Teams within 13" of the bearer can reroll hit rolls for the shooting phase.

Changed All-out Attack: Give a unit +1 to hit for a phase. Very tasty, spread the buff butter around, or stack it up on a big unit to mitigate hit modifiers.

Unleash Hell: I mean c'mon. This CA was practically made for Skaven. An enemy charges your chaff wall, and your Stormfiends/Acolytes behind them rip them to shreds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 14:48:25


Skaven - 4500
OBR - 4250
- 6800
- 4250
- 2750 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Secret lab at the bottom of Lake Superior

I don't think you statement

Skaven fundamentally doesnt work when you try to mix clans since clanrats take too much realestate to do it.


is quite true - 3 units of 20 (the MSU approach) is 390 points. There's other armies with worse battle line taxes, and having 1600 points of pestilens other than those lads ain't bad.

I honestly think mixed clan skaven is the best/normal way to play. Solo eshin's always been terrible in AoS, pure verminous would be rather boring, not sure if it'd be effective on the tabletop, pure skryre is an extreme glass cannon, and pestilens was good but now suffers like skryre - they could use some clanrats for ablative shielding.

I do agree that the reinforcement rules hurt bad. I'll echo Vineheart, always worth a friendly ask if your local players wouldn't mind ignoring that rule.

Commissar NIkev wrote:
This guy......is smart
 
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Cleveland, Ohio, USA

3x20 (plus occasional reinforcements) clanrats plus a snoutgrovel robe grey seer or a seer on a bell is usually the foundation of any Skaven army I build. 60 battleshock immune wounds to wrap an army is a pretty safe start to list building.

That approach lets you invest 1300pts (depending on whether the clanrats got reinforced or what flavor of grey seer you chose) into raw damage.

I'll agree that the reinforcement rules mean using Skaven unit size benefits unrealistic, which is rather lame, but then I never really fielded plague monks at greater than 30. All Out Attack yielding the same +1 to hit that a unit of 20 would have otherwise given offsets that a bit as well.

They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines, and they shall know no fear. 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Pestilens is fantastic with the new edition and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Here's the thing--the reinforcement bit hurts. A lot. You won't really be able to go straight on the offense anymore; you need to be counter-charging.

By this I mean a unit of 10 monks in front of a unit of 20. They run forward, get killed, then the unit behind charges what killed them. Can the enemy counterplay that? Absolutely; that's why you have three of those setups. Throw in a pair of furnaces (good rule of thumb for pure pestilens is one furnace per 1000 points) and a plagueclaw or two then stuff the remaining points with plague priests.

Take the curse prayer from the core enhancements; it goes on an enemy unit instead of a friendly one so MSU monks can all gain the benefit. Also remember that all priests have the generic prayers to give a 6+ ward and deal MW to enemy priests at a very long range.

Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.

I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. 
   
 
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