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Made in us
Beast of Nurgle





Can Death Guard move and summon because of inexorable advance?

Daemonic ritual say: "Instead of moving in their Movement phase, any CHAOS CHARACTER can, at the end of their Movement phase, attempt to summon a DAEMON unit with this ability by performing a Daemonic Ritual (the character cannot do so if they arrived as reinforcements this turn, or if they were themselves summoned to the battlefield this turn)."

Inexorable advance says: "this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase "

Would this mean a Death Guard character can move and summon turn 2?
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






No, it would have to say something like
"If this model remained stationary in their Movement phase"

But you have to totally trade Movement to summon.

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Made in us
Beast of Nurgle





The main argument I heard is the Daemonic ritual was written in 8th and remain stationary is a 9th thing
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






That's correct but until it's errata'd or otherwise overwritten we have to work with RAW. Presumably they would have released an errata on Daemonic Ritual if they wanted it to work like that.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
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And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
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And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
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Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

Note that 'remain stationary' does show up in a few places in 8th edition (e.g., in the 8th edition Necron Codex the Doomsday Cannon can only be fired at high power '... if it remained stationary in its preceding Movement phase.').

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cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Moonknight wrote:
Can Death Guard move and summon because of inexorable advance?

Daemonic ritual say: "Instead of moving in their Movement phase, any CHAOS CHARACTER can, at the end of their Movement phase, attempt to summon a DAEMON unit with this ability by performing a Daemonic Ritual (the character cannot do so if they arrived as reinforcements this turn, or if they were themselves summoned to the battlefield this turn)."

Inexorable advance says: "this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase "

Would this mean a Death Guard character can move and summon turn 2?


Death Guard cannot move and summon in the same turn.
Inexorable advance (emphasis mine):
this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase

A Death Guard unit that moves it is unable to summon that turn in the movement phase because Inexorable Advance doesn't do anything for the current movement phase, only "the previous movement phase".
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Aash wrote:
Moonknight wrote:
Can Death Guard move and summon because of inexorable advance?

Daemonic ritual say: "Instead of moving in their Movement phase, any CHAOS CHARACTER can, at the end of their Movement phase, attempt to summon a DAEMON unit with this ability by performing a Daemonic Ritual (the character cannot do so if they arrived as reinforcements this turn, or if they were themselves summoned to the battlefield this turn)."

Inexorable advance says: "this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase "

Would this mean a Death Guard character can move and summon turn 2?


Death Guard cannot move and summon in the same turn.
Inexorable advance (emphasis mine):
this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase

A Death Guard unit that moves it is unable to summon that turn in the movement phase because Inexorable Advance doesn't do anything for the current movement phase, only "the previous movement phase".


So they can summon when they have moved in the current movement phase, but didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/24 05:36:41


 
   
Made in us
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 p5freak wrote:
Aash wrote:
Moonknight wrote:
Can Death Guard move and summon because of inexorable advance?

Daemonic ritual say: "Instead of moving in their Movement phase, any CHAOS CHARACTER can, at the end of their Movement phase, attempt to summon a DAEMON unit with this ability by performing a Daemonic Ritual (the character cannot do so if they arrived as reinforcements this turn, or if they were themselves summoned to the battlefield this turn)."

Inexorable advance says: "this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase "

Would this mean a Death Guard character can move and summon turn 2?


Death Guard cannot move and summon in the same turn.
Inexorable advance (emphasis mine):
this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase

A Death Guard unit that moves it is unable to summon that turn in the movement phase because Inexorable Advance doesn't do anything for the current movement phase, only "the previous movement phase".


So they can summon when they have moved in the current movement phase, but didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase ?


Yes. Having re-read my previous post, I think I misunderstood the OP. Provided it did not fall back or advance the previous turn, then the unit counts as having remained stationary and so is able to summon. So even if it Advanced or Fell Back this turn, it still counts as "remained stationary" if it didn't in the previous movement phase. (unless summoning counts as an "Action"?)

I doubt this is intended, but RAW I see no reason that DG can't summon given the above conditions.

From the core book FAQ:

*Page 363, Rare Rules
Add the following:
Rules That Count As Remaining Stationary
Some rules allow a unit to count as having Remained Stationary,
or count as if it had not moved, even if that unit has moved
during its Movement phase. The following rules apply to these
type of rules: ...

... 5. Such rules mean that any other rules (abilities, Stratagems etc.)
that are used or triggered when a unit Remains Stationary (e.g.
Grinding Advance) can be used/are triggered. ...

... 8. Even if a unit is subject to such a rule, it cannot start an action
if it has Advanced or Fallen Back this turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/24 06:42:43


 
   
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Germany

I see nothing in the rules that summoning is an action.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






I doubt this is intended, but RAW I see no reason that DG can't summon given the above conditions.

Because summoning is done instead of moving, not when a unit has remained stationary.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Aash wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
Aash wrote:
Moonknight wrote:
Can Death Guard move and summon because of inexorable advance?

Daemonic ritual say: "Instead of moving in their Movement phase, any CHAOS CHARACTER can, at the end of their Movement phase, attempt to summon a DAEMON unit with this ability by performing a Daemonic Ritual (the character cannot do so if they arrived as reinforcements this turn, or if they were themselves summoned to the battlefield this turn)."

Inexorable advance says: "this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase "

Would this mean a Death Guard character can move and summon turn 2?


Death Guard cannot move and summon in the same turn.
Inexorable advance (emphasis mine):
this unit counts as having remained stationary if it didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase

A Death Guard unit that moves it is unable to summon that turn in the movement phase because Inexorable Advance doesn't do anything for the current movement phase, only "the previous movement phase".


So they can summon when they have moved in the current movement phase, but didn't fall back or advance in the previous movement phase ?


Yes. Having re-read my previous post, I think I misunderstood the OP. Provided it did not fall back or advance the previous turn, then the unit counts as having remained stationary and so is able to summon. So even if it Advanced or Fell Back this turn, it still counts as "remained stationary" if it didn't in the previous movement phase. (unless summoning counts as an "Action"?)

I doubt this is intended, but RAW I see no reason that DG can't summon given the above conditions.

From the core book FAQ:

*Page 363, Rare Rules
Add the following:
Rules That Count As Remaining Stationary
Some rules allow a unit to count as having Remained Stationary,
or count as if it had not moved, even if that unit has moved
during its Movement phase. The following rules apply to these
type of rules: ...

... 5. Such rules mean that any other rules (abilities, Stratagems etc.)
that are used or triggered when a unit Remains Stationary (e.g.
Grinding Advance) can be used/are triggered. ...

... 8. Even if a unit is subject to such a rule, it cannot start an action
if it has Advanced or Fallen Back this turn.



No, none of that works. Because:

- Inexorable Advance specifies 'the previous movement phase', so it doesn't apply while you're still in the movement phase. And summoning occurs at the end of the movement phase.
- Even if you're attempting to argue that the meaning of the summoning rule is supposed to be "If the unit Remained Stationary, at the end of the movement phase it can ...", that's in no way, shape, or form a 'rules as written' argument.

Because "Instead of moving, the unit can do this" isn't "If the unit didn't move, it can do this". For the summoning rule, during the movement phase you select the unit and indicate "This unit is using the summoning rule." and that resolves that unit's movement. (Later, at the end of the movement phase, you go through the rest of the rule, but the unit's movement has been resolved.) Falling back, or advancing, or whatever, even if the unit ends up counting as remaining stationary, doesn't cause summoning to happen.
   
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Beast of Nurgle





With Inexorable advance you remain basically stationary you cont as "remained stationary" till the psychic phase of the next turn (unless you fell back or advanced) so in the Turn 2 movement phase you still count as "Remained stationary". So what people say is even if you move you count as stationary that movement phase, So at the end of the phase you can do the ritual since you dont count as having moved.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun

You are missing the point that in the current version, remain stationary and instead of moving are two different states. One does not equate the other.

Had summoning stated that the unit remained stationary or, at a push, did not move then you have an arguement. But it says instead of. You do this instead of moving. The act of moving, even if you remain stationary disallows the use of summoning.

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