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Are Phobos Officers hopeless? (mostly LT's and Captains)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Title says it all. I like running infiltrators and Incursors. Sure, not point for point the greatest but they have their uses, particularly in a hold objectives format when objectives are out of deployment zone. Infiltrators with the helix are a little more durable, and the auto wound on 6 to hit weapon has its uses. I also play White Scars, and when I do get to the assault doctrine, Incursors become very useful. So no real problems with those phobos guys.

Same with Libby. I like Mind raid. I like storm wreathed. So he is useful.

However, the officers seem hopeless. I expected a good points saving going this way given their relative use vs their contemporaries. Nope.

A 95 point captain with a one shot weapon and nothing for CC? Compared to, for one example, A White Scars bike captain who can reliably do 10+ wounds a turn for a few more points seems no comparison. And there are many others.

Same issue with the LT. A mediocre shooting attack, for more points than a basic Primaris LT who gets a power sword.

The Captain at least gets a deep strike denial bubble which is worth something, but not that much in the place models and leafblow shooting era. The camo cloak is also worth a little. The LT gets neither of these things so I'm not sure why he even bothers to be called Phobos (another brilliant bit of shoehorning a model into your rules)
There just seems to be no ability to get the points back you have paid for the number of CC attacks, because no useful CC weapon. Which MUST have at least -2 AP to put the majority of characters on invuln, and multiple damage because the game is adding wounds as fast as it added AP the last few editions (and yes, the correlation is obvious and not something to debate here).

Am I missing things? Or have the Phobos units simply been produced, sold, and now ignored by GW? Is it the mono-pose models so zippo weapon upgrades thing? is there any hope here?

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






They're terrible, yes. This is because for some reason GW has decided that phobos armour prevents you from holding a decent close combat weapon. None of the phobos sergeants get melee weapon options either. I mean why would I want to give such to sergeants of units that can drop or infiltrate close to the enemy? No, the Intercessor sergeants that lead squads of shooty guys with pretty long-ranged guns should get all the melee weapons instead!

The lieutenants are completely useless and the gear selections of two versions are wrong way around (the Reiver one doesn't get grav chutes to drop with Reivers, the other one doesn't get infiltrate to infiltrate with Incursors or Infiltrators.) And neither gets any decent weapons.

The captain might be OK for buffing gunline. Also, if you're playing Ultras, the captain can be given a relic sword.

   
Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





I use a Phobos Captain to let the Hellblaster gun line re-roll Ones. If he also lets Infilitrators anywhere on the field re-roll Ones - why not?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Ok, so I'm not crazy. Sad, but not like this is the only thing GW doesn't seem to remember is part of the game anymore. (My primary army is Eldar...so enough said there.)

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Phobos officers are really only worth taking if you have infiltrators with coms arrays. being able to get that re-roll aura ANYWHERE ON THE BOARD is gonna be useful

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Some chapters have relics that can replace combat knives. Makes them a little more viable.

If you are going for pure primaris, the fact that they have deploy options is nice, as you can’t just use bikes/JPs/TDA versions (depending on officer)

The captain’s DS denial is good if he’s just hanging out with a firebase in your backfield. Keeps the riff-raff away.

Some of them look cool?

There are a handful of corner cases where they have some perks, but generally not worth it IMHO.

   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Can do some work for Raven Guard. Place Korvidari bolts on captain and he becomes a non LOS sniper. Ex tenebris on the phobos Lt is also a standard. RG also have a relic knife too if you want to go that way for the Capt

Phobos capt with kovidari bolts gets a 36" S4 -2 3D shot that can target characters, even if out of LOS. Give him Master Marksman WT for 4D weapon instead, or Stealth Adept to make him harder to target. Coupled with RG super doctrine, you get +1 to hit (offset characters in dense) and +1 to wound characters in tactical doctrine (plus gun goes to Ap-3). He's a decent support character.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

Okay, getting some good thoughts. Appreciate it guys!
My real hurt for me is the lack of AP in CC. As White Scars my captain can hang a little back until assault phase, and then do some damage. As to him sniping characters, that pesky 1 shot only means his damage potential against anyone with the pretty standard 4++ is ugly. For 95 pts he should be better than:
Vs SM captain with T4 .625 or .83 with the extra damage trait. Of course one blown invuln...

if he had two shots? worth it at 1.25




Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





edwardmyst wrote:
Okay, getting some good thoughts. Appreciate it guys!
My real hurt for me is the lack of AP in CC. As White Scars my captain can hang a little back until assault phase, and then do some damage. As to him sniping characters, that pesky 1 shot only means his damage potential against anyone with the pretty standard 4++ is ugly. For 95 pts he should be better than:
Vs SM captain with T4 .625 or .83 with the extra damage trait. Of course one blown invuln...

if he had two shots? worth it at 1.25


You are also using him to buff your Eliminators, create a 12" denial bubble etc.
Besides, there are many buffing characters that don't have great invulns that would be worthy targets.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The Captain is primarily a support piece, and as stated it tends to function better with a Phobos heavy formation (mostly because of synergies). It may not be the most competitive model, but it's fun and more often than not I find myself including one. And with many supporting characters sitting on 3-4 wounds, the *threat* of the headshot alone can work in your favor.

The Lt. is a bit more esoteric. I wont get into the equipment lunacy (already covered above), but it has a niche that sets it apart from most other Marine characters: objective nuisance duty. The capacity to tell an action heavy (or obsec heavy) location to sod off can swing a game if utilized correctly. It is admittedly *extremely* difficult to deliver, but when it goes off it'll change the entire game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 00:17:11


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

More good points. Hoping for more. It really helps me to hear other thought processes. My table is only semi-competitive so these guys aren't useless (and I'll use them again). I have run Assault style armies for so long my tactical pattern runs that direction.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





They're great for Crusade since you can overcome all their shortcomings with Battle Honours- particularly requisitioned WL Traits and Crusade Relics.

I actually want all 4 types of Kill Teams and an HQ to work with each team.
   
 
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