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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

I add a changecaster to my disciplines of Be'lakor army. The changecaster (he gains the keyword DISCIPLINES OF BE'LAKOR) knows smite and two powers from the tzeentch discipline. The rules for disciplines of Be'lakor say :

DISCIPLINES OF BE'LAKOR PSYKERS in your army can generate their psychic powers from the Noctic Discipline.


The latest FAQs says this :

HAS ACCESS TO (PSYCHIC DISCIPLINES)
The term ‘has access to’ is sometimes used in rules, typically in
conjunction with Relics, Warlord Traits and other upgrades that
allow Psykers to know additional psychic powers. We wanted to
clarify exactly what the term ‘has access to’ means.
• If a Psyker unit’s datasheet says that it can know psychic powers
from one or more psychic disciplines, then that Psyker unit has
access to those psychic disciplines.
• If a Psyker unit has the option to know psychic powers from
a different discipline in addition to the discipline(s) listed on
their datasheet, then that Psyker unit has access to that psychic
discipline(s) as well.
• If a Psyker unit has the option to know psychic powers from a
different discipline instead of a discipline listed on their datasheet,
then that Psyker unit has access to that psychic discipline instead.


My question is, can the changecaster choose powers from both disciplines ? Is the noctic discipline in addition, or instead of the tzeentch discipline ? Can i pick one power from the noctic, and one from the tzeentch discipline ?
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




Looks as clear as mud to me.

There's an absurd option that aligns with RAW, the Changecaster doesn't get the option to actually generate powers from the Noctic Discipline on the basis that DoB doesn't change the datasheet requirement of the Changecaster needing to know smite and two powers from the Tzeentch discipline.

I think this is something that we should query the rules team to clarify.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I suspect the intention is to lock you into one discipline but it is not clear. My suggestion is to just pick whatever you want and then your opponent has no definitive argument against it.

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Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




I would go with in addition based upon the RAW rules posted. The reason being that the DoB says "can" not "must" or just writing the line as "generates their psychic abilities from". Can is permissive but doesn't mandate a choice. In this instance you have access to the Tzeentch powers but you can use the DoB powers if you wish.
   
Made in us
Brainy Zoanthrope





Yeah you can mix them. Can is the word here.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

And how many powers from the noctic discipline does he know ? It doesnt say anything about that. Since there is no limit, can he pick all of them ?
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter






Dimmamar

On the page of Noctic Discipline, the text reads:
...you can generate the psychic powers for any DISCIPLES OF BE'LAKOR PSYKER units from your army from the Noctic discipline using the table below, instead of any other psychic discipline.... Note that a model cannot know powers from this discipline and another discipline.

This solves the problem about mixing disciplines on a single Changecaster--you can't. It doesn't solve the problem of how many powers the Changecaster knows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 20:45:32


LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1500 6000 2000 5000


"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

The same number he would know from his normal discipline. He uses his normal rules but generates all his powers from the Noctic Discipleine instead of his normal choices.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
On the page of Noctic Discipline, the text reads:
...you can generate the psychic powers for any DISCIPLES OF BE'LAKOR PSYKER units from your army from the Noctic discipline using the table below, instead of any other psychic discipline.... Note that a model cannot know powers from this discipline and another discipline.

This solves the problem about mixing disciplines on a single Changecaster--you can't. It doesn't solve the problem of how many powers the Changecaster knows.


Correct. I didnt see that.

 alextroy wrote:
The same number he would know from his normal discipline. He uses his normal rules but generates all his powers from the Noctic Discipleine instead of his normal choices.


And where does it say that ?
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 p5freak wrote:
 Elric Greywolf wrote:
On the page of Noctic Discipline, the text reads:
...you can generate the psychic powers for any DISCIPLES OF BE'LAKOR PSYKER units from your army from the Noctic discipline using the table below, instead of any other psychic discipline.... Note that a model cannot know powers from this discipline and another discipline.

This solves the problem about mixing disciplines on a single Changecaster--you can't. It doesn't solve the problem of how many powers the Changecaster knows.


Correct. I didnt see that.

 alextroy wrote:
The same number he would know from his normal discipline. He uses his normal rules but generates all his powers from the Noctic Discipleine instead of his normal choices.


And where does it say that ?


Oh come on. You know the rules are written in colloquial language for the most part. You know he gets two powers. If picking from another discipline is it a) 2, or iii) THE GAME BREAK OHNOES?

Apply a little logic, use the words written there, and don’t pretend the 2 disappeared and you’ll be fine.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Oh come on. You know the rules are written in colloquial language for the most part. You know he gets two powers. If picking from another discipline is it a) 2, or iii) THE GAME BREAK OHNOES?

Apply a little logic, use the words written there, and don’t pretend the 2 disappeared and you’ll be fine.


I dont know how many powers he gets, thats why i ask. There is no limit for the noctic discipline, if i use the words written there i can pick all powers.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Good grief.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Given you were making up rules to suit elsewhere, any reason you feel the need to break the game here?
We all know it's two
You know it's two
The faq, if they bother, will say two
It's a non discussion.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Given you were making up rules to suit elsewhere, any reason you feel the need to break the game here?
We all know it's two
You know it's two
The faq, if they bother, will say two
It's a non discussion.


I dont make up rules, you do when you say its two.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






His datasheet says he knows 2 powers from tzeench.

He can now access Noctis Instead of Tzeench.

If you cant figure out how many he knows, you could go to remedial school and it would probably help.


Sorry for being harsh.

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Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 p5freak wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Given you were making up rules to suit elsewhere, any reason you feel the need to break the game here?
We all know it's two
You know it's two
The faq, if they bother, will say two
It's a non discussion.


I dont make up rules, you do when you say its two.


What do the tenets of YMDC say about “it doesn’t say I can’t” not being a valid rule or avenue of discussion? Have a peek, p5…

Have to say, this is pretty basic stuff limit of 2 hasn’t been substituted or removed, only the discipline. It’s mighty rich to accuse people of making stuff up when one is doing just that…

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Given you were making up rules to suit elsewhere, any reason you feel the need to break the game here?
We all know it's two
You know it's two
The faq, if they bother, will say two
It's a non discussion.


I dont make up rules, you do when you say its two.

Untrue. You made up the idea of a pair of HBF being a single weapon system. That has no relation to the actual rules, and was made up on the spot as you weren't willing, it seems, to accept yiur error.

If you read the rule you quoted, yiu can see it says they can generate THEIR powers from noctis. So they start to generate power one, which locks them into noctis or Tz, and the gen number two.

Whoops, turns out their rules do cover this.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

OP’s initial post even accepts that it’s two powers, so changing tack later just seems contrarian.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Indeed. Another bad faith argument it seems.
   
 
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