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Have a largish ork collection, from RT to newer plastics (missing some kopters, so am happy to see that these are back!). Was excited by the new combat patrol box as a possible project to add to the collection, after I get these (many still in box) SoBs sorted. I like the models, and might end up with one in the end, but some (many?) reviews are negative due to the monopose boyz. Sure, they can be treated as we do/did old metals, cutting and sawing and pinning and filling before painting, but there is something attractive about more flexible multi-pose plastic kits with lots of weapon options. So, I am on the fence with this one... I have enough dreadnoughts, but could use the included to do a lot of other things (usually that sort of thing ends up as terrain...), and am mostly excited by the kopters, but the boyz do look cool. So, here is a(nother) simple poll asking if this is a box that will be bought up or left on the shelf. New combat patrol for Orks, hot or not?

So you need to buy 3 boxs to get one unit of 10 shoty ones ? Well I hope the choppers and the other units are really in demand for new ork players. .

The models themselves are great. Really solid sculpts with some decent dynamics.

But the Boyz kit remains an inexcusable waste of a re-do. There’s just no defence for it, at all.

I'm not the target audience for this, I have hundreds of boyz and a deff dread already and I've got plenty of Kopters from AoBR. Glad others can get access to those now.

The monopose is not such a big deal if the normal Boyz mob remains available, because you can just mix them in with normal mobs. It's a deeply weird choice on GW's part though!

I think it's potentially a good move and a single box of other boyz pads out both units back to correct sizes. It's not optimal or even desired to build the units the way they are in the box but as a starting point they can all still be used and will blend into other mobs over time.

Wait for the single kits to be released and get what you need then.

 jeff white wrote:
New combat patrol for Orks, hot or not?

Hot. The Megaboss is awesome (mono-pose lack of options actually impacting the rules notwithstanding), the Boyz are great (in small numbers, mixed in with other Orks), the Koptaz are fantastic and the Dread is a Dread. What's not to love?

Essentially if you only ever intended to get one of these, it's great. Its inherent value drops off a fething cliff real fast if you wanted to get more than one though.

Karol wrote:
So you need to buy 3 boxs to get one unit of 10 shoty ones?

No you don't. You just buy the normal Boyz kit, which is still on sale.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But the Boyz kit remains an inexcusable waste of a re-do. There’s just no defence for it, at all.

Not going to disagree that it is a waste of a re-do - what the feth were GW thinking with that one? - but as a one-off mixed into existing Orks I think they'll work quite well.

But just….why?

There is absolutely no doubt they’re gorgeous models - and will mix into the existing kit.

But…..why not a whole new kit, GW? This isn’t an upgrade sprue like the Cadian one, but a whole new kit done as, well, kind of an upgrade sprue?

I just don’t understand their thought process here.

Like:

Warboss mega armod
Bigger kan
Deffkoptas.

Dislike:
Boymob even worse equipped and monopose than CSM squad from the SC /Shadowspear..
HEAVY DISLIKE:
I wanted shoota boys because DAKKA but NO GW doesn't want to give me good ammount of DAKKA for the boys.


Conclusion:
As much as i want the Waaghboss in MA
Deffkoptas
Bigger kan to lead my smoll kans
the boys i also wanted especially the shootas.. but with that equipment...

It's the same process that went into the chaos warriors start collecting (all new monopose sculpts) - don't actually buy lots of this. The new GW doesn't want to sell things.

I guess a cynical answer could be “they want to sell Beastsnaggas”.

Except…I’m not sure that carries water in this case.

Pretty much any existing Ork player is going to have Boyz, and lots of them. They may not have used them often, but they’d still have them because staple unit remains staple.

Beastsnaggas are shiny new, and having built some a nice kit. So there’s sales incentive enough - a slightly more elite Troops option where non existed before.

And if they were wanting us to by Beastsnaggas over Boyz? Just…sort of….why bother making any new Boyz kit, let alone an oddly half arsed one?

CSM at least can be split in to two units of 5.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Karol wrote:
So you need to buy 3 boxs to get one unit of 10 shoty ones?

No you don't. You just buy the normal Boyz kit, which is still on sale.

But aren't you just left with models that won't make a unit. if this unit is split 5,3 and one special, plus a nob, then buying a 10 man box will just leave you with units that can't be split in to 10 man sized. Plus this still means you have to buy 2 boxs to finish a unit.

Starting a new Ork army from scratch this month, I'm the intended audience for this box. Originally I was going to pick up two of them but now I'll just get one. I don't think that's really hot or not, just "good enough".

I agree with HBMC - the options in the box are still great. The Boyz just mean that buying more than one CP box is a harder choice.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But just….why?

There is absolutely no doubt they’re gorgeous models - and will mix into the existing kit.

But…..why not a whole new kit, GW? This isn’t an upgrade sprue like the Cadian one, but a whole new kit done as, well, kind of an upgrade sprue?

I just don’t understand their thought process here.

This is speculation, but it's probably part of rebooting their ETB range. You've probably seen this before, using AOBR sculpts:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Vedros

I'm assuming the Megaboss and Deffkoptas are pushfit too as the latter doesn't have clear flying stands. That's a pretty valid thing for GW to do, but where GW went wrong with this was not making it clear that these didn't replace the existing Boyz.

realistically from a competitive standpoint the only thing really worth getting is the koptas, which are in competition with skrapjets for best rokkit platform.

Dreads still stink as anything in 9th edition that wants to get close to do anything and has the audacity to try and use 'surviving hits' as its method of getting to where it wants to be.

Boyz anyone who has an existing ork collection at all already has enough of. If not, gratz, this box set gives you your 10 choppa boyz+Klaw nob and you can throw the remaining jumble of monopose crap in the trash or dismember them for marine bases or something.

the megaboss initially had a little bit of 'maybe he could be good?' buzz but it's becoming increasingly obvious that, as an HQ with a mobility feature that DOESNT make him give up 90% of his melee damage output, the squigboss is just the flatly superior warboss option in basically all cases.

If you're running a melee heavy list, the megaboss is decent to hop out of a vehicle and give the +1 to hit buff, I'd guess that'd still be useful.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But just….why?

There is absolutely no doubt they’re gorgeous models - and will mix into the existing kit.

But…..why not a whole new kit, GW? This isn’t an upgrade sprue like the Cadian one, but a whole new kit done as, well, kind of an upgrade sprue?

I just don’t understand their thought process here.

Possibly giving them too much credit here - They knew that a box of 10 boyz at the same price as the beast snaggaz would go down like a fart at a wedding and if it cost more because it needed the extra sprue for the shootas/sluggas for everyone then you're looking at a nigh monopose £32.50+ box of 10 boyz costing 100 points.

I have a feeling this being done this way and bundling them in a combat patrol is a way around the shareholders and the pricing structure to get cheaper horde infantry out there, but they didn't have sprue space to give the options so decided on a mix with the knowledge people could round the units out later.

Dudeface wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But just….why?

There is absolutely no doubt they’re gorgeous models - and will mix into the existing kit.

But…..why not a whole new kit, GW? This isn’t an upgrade sprue like the Cadian one, but a whole new kit done as, well, kind of an upgrade sprue?

I just don’t understand their thought process here.

Possibly giving them too much credit here - They knew that a box of 10 boyz at the same price as the beast snaggaz would go down like a fart at a wedding and if it cost more because it needed the extra sprue for the shootas/sluggas for everyone then you're looking at a nigh monopose £32.50+ box of 10 boyz costing 100 points.

I have a feeling this being done this way and bundling them in a combat patrol is a way around the shareholders and the pricing structure to get cheaper horde infantry out there, but they didn't have sprue space to give the options so decided on a mix with the knowledge people could round the units out later.

In theory it makes sense if we see a re-cadded multipose version of boyz a couple months down the line.

Then the logic is: We give the ork players 20 boyz in a slightly inefficient layout initially. Then, in order to expand their collection and get the pieces required to have 3 units each with all the same weapon, they buy a third boyz kit separately which gives them the exact number of boyz that we 'intend' people to field in a normal ork army.

The monoposing then actually works in your favor, because it makes it less likely that someone will just hop on to ebay and buy starter box ork boyz and instead they'll be more likely to buy just one of the expensive kit from gw - but then the kit can be more expensive, because it's not like you actually need a million boyz - one purchase of the box is enough to have a 'normal' ork army's worth of boyz.

It works the same way as the monopose sisters of battle. People complain that the sisters of battle box can only be built in two configurations for each model, but in GW's eyes, how many sisters are you going to buy? They want you to start with the combat patrol box, which has 10 unique, monopose sisters...and then they want you to buy one, maybe two copies of the battle sisters box and ideally you'll have all you're going to need.

Not. On paper, I was stoked for it, but it's the Boyz that really let it down imo; no real beef with an ETB kit (assuming there'll be a full one down the line), but the fact you basically end up with 2x10 identical models is, for an army like Orks where uniformity of appearance is very much Not What You're After, just a bit of a let-down. Even a different head for each model would have gone a long way towards alleviating this problem.

On top of that, I've always felt that the Ork head/face sculpts since the Flash Gitz release have been a bit of a let-down compared to the classic Brian-Nelson era stuff, and I think some of the new Boyz are particularly bad for this (and the less said about the Mega-armour Boss' tiny stupid head, the better).

I feel like as a general combat patrol box to start for a new Ork player, it's very solid and much better than what we've generally had in the past, since it actually comes with a decent HQ this time (Painboy was only an HQ way back in 7th and the boyz+Nobz+Deff Dread really didn't allow you to play out of the box without another troop unit). However, as mentioned, it has significantly diminishing returns since the boyz box is so neutered in options (for ORKS no less) and the lack of modularity makes it go down in points when it could have been a home run release. Overall about a 6/10 box instead of the 8 or 9 it could have been if the new boyz had the full assortment as a multi-part plastic kit rather than ETB.

there is also the fact to consider that it's essentially like if you got a mono-posed tactical marine box armed with meltagun, missile launcher, plasma pistol and power sword sergeant. The boyz you get in the box just could not be in more unconducive loadouts for success.

For one thing, thanks to how GW restructured our standard weaponry, foot boyz never ever ever under any circumstances want to be armed with special weaponry, because you literally cannot use it while doing what orks want to be doing - moving towards melee combat. And you also never want to arm a boy with a shoota, though I suppose you could get away with it in smaller games by having those be the inevitable first few casualties you lose when you take fire or, the new special Ork rule GW added to be equivalent to marine Doctrines, the morale phase.

"What are you doing?"

"Removing models as casualties."

"We've already done that."

"We've done one yes, but what about SECOND removing models as casualties?"

 the_scotsman wrote:
there is also the fact to consider that it's essentially like if you got a mono-posed tactical marine box armed with meltagun, missile launcher, plasma pistol and power sword sergeant. The boyz you get in the box just could not be in more unconducive loadouts for success.

For one thing, thanks to how GW restructured our standard weaponry, foot boyz never ever ever under any circumstances want to be armed with special weaponry, because you literally cannot use it while doing what orks want to be doing - moving towards melee combat. And you also never want to arm a boy with a shoota, though I suppose you could get away with it in smaller games by having those be the inevitable first few casualties you lose when you take fire or, the new special Ork rule GW added to be equivalent to marine Doctrines, the morale phase.

"What are you doing?"

"Removing models as casualties."

"We've already done that."

"We've done one yes, but what about SECOND removing models as casualties?"

I can't understand for the life of me wonder how GW has had all these editions and still have not created a way for morale to be relevant across all armies in an edition. It's usually only like 2-3 armies where it actually matters and for everyone else its basically an inconvenience at best.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But…..why not a whole new kit, GW? This isn’t an upgrade sprue like the Cadian one, but a whole new kit done as, well, kind of an upgrade sprue?

I just don’t understand their thought process here.

No one does.

I still don't understand why they made Ork shooting less mobile in this 'Dex. Making Rokkits Heavy? WTF? Dakka? Should be more shots when stationary, less shots when advancing. Not range differentials.

 Grimskul wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
there is also the fact to consider that it's essentially like if you got a mono-posed tactical marine box armed with meltagun, missile launcher, plasma pistol and power sword sergeant. The boyz you get in the box just could not be in more unconducive loadouts for success.

For one thing, thanks to how GW restructured our standard weaponry, foot boyz never ever ever under any circumstances want to be armed with special weaponry, because you literally cannot use it while doing what orks want to be doing - moving towards melee combat. And you also never want to arm a boy with a shoota, though I suppose you could get away with it in smaller games by having those be the inevitable first few casualties you lose when you take fire or, the new special Ork rule GW added to be equivalent to marine Doctrines, the morale phase.

"What are you doing?"

"Removing models as casualties."

"We've already done that."

"We've done one yes, but what about SECOND removing models as casualties?"

I can't understand for the life of me wonder how GW has had all these editions and still have not created a way for morale to be relevant across all armies in an edition. It's usually only like 2-3 armies where it actually matters and for everyone else its basically an inconvenience at best.

Probably because it's not a particularly fun mechanic in 9th edition, and in previous editions the idea of the super-hyper-inhuman-badasses of the 41st millennium falling back and running away caused such instant moral outrage in so many different factions' fans that it basically would get slow-written out of the game.

Personally I think a mechanic that represents more 'some weaponry is so destructive that even the most fearless warriors must hunker down to avoid certain death' would make more sense. Maybe something like, if you fail a morale test your unit is pinned, and they either must stay in place (gaining a bonus to their save as if they were in cover) or they can move but must finish that move in better cover than their previous position (in which case, they gain a 'better than normal cover' bonus).

Morale being just 'more casualties' is deeply, deeply unsatisfying, and one of my least favorite mechanics of 9th. Also basing it on number of casualties is bad too, given how the probability curve on morale tests works. A minimum-size unit already has a number of built in mechanical advantages, it doesnt need total morale immunity on top.

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:
there is also the fact to consider that it's essentially like if you got a mono-posed tactical marine box armed with meltagun, missile launcher, plasma pistol and power sword sergeant. The boyz you get in the box just could not be in more unconducive loadouts for success.

For one thing, thanks to how GW restructured our standard weaponry, foot boyz never ever ever under any circumstances want to be armed with special weaponry, because you literally cannot use it while doing what orks want to be doing - moving towards melee combat. And you also never want to arm a boy with a shoota, though I suppose you could get away with it in smaller games by having those be the inevitable first few casualties you lose when you take fire or, the new special Ork rule GW added to be equivalent to marine Doctrines, the morale phase.

"What are you doing?"

"Removing models as casualties."

"We've already done that."

"We've done one yes, but what about SECOND removing models as casualties?"

I can't understand for the life of me wonder how GW has had all these editions and still have not created a way for morale to be relevant across all armies in an edition. It's usually only like 2-3 armies where it actually matters and for everyone else its basically an inconvenience at best.

Probably because it's not a particularly fun mechanic in 9th edition, and in previous editions the idea of the super-hyper-inhuman-badasses of the 41st millennium falling back and running away caused such instant moral outrage in so many different factions' fans that it basically would get slow-written out of the game.

Personally I think a mechanic that represents more 'some weaponry is so destructive that even the most fearless warriors must hunker down to avoid certain death' would make more sense. Maybe something like, if you fail a morale test your unit is pinned, and they either must stay in place (gaining a bonus to their save as if they were in cover) or they can move but must finish that move in better cover than their previous position (in which case, they gain a 'better than normal cover' bonus).

Morale being just 'more casualties' is deeply, deeply unsatisfying, and one of my least favorite mechanics of 9th. Also basing it on number of casualties is bad too, given how the probability curve on morale tests works. A minimum-size unit already has a number of built in mechanical advantages, it doesnt need total morale immunity on top.

Agreed on the pinning thing. Whenever morale comes up, I think of limited movement and negative mods for fighting/shooting, similar to how suppression works in DoW2 games. Too many factions basically have fluff reasons as to why units wouldn't flee from combat like you said, so I think that negative impacts on "broken" units make much more sense since then you have a meaningful way of interacting with morale effects rather than it be an all or nothing mechanic.

morale is mostly just ported directly over from wargames where it's an understood fact that you're generaling for frail, sometimes cowardly humans but emotionally most 40k players are just like 'my mindless emotionless space marines would NEVER run from battle!'

so just turn it into a cold, calculating thing. Even an Impossibly Calm Action Hero has to duck and cover a few times per movie to show that he has to avoid, say, a grenade or an explosion.

Heck, re-introducing pinning as a result of being hit by Blast, Grenade and weapons that hit automatically would give grenades some kind of purpose outside of scoring a meaningless extra 1-2 S3 shots.

Hmmm. Feel like its a cycle thing. Small units do have some advantages - but used to have the major disadvantage of being weaker at dreaded stratagem induced wombo-combos.

But since many of them seem to be getting pulled, the situation kind of goes away on its own.

But really at this stage its not even 2-3 armies - its more like 2-3 units. Big 30 man Boyz for example (or Grot) blobs that are really bothered by this. And I guess maybe 6 man Killa Kanz blobs if anyone were ever to run such. Looking at what seems to be "competitive Orks" lists though morale really isn't something to be worried about.

Its kind of like if Tyranid Synapse rules are changed, those 30 man blobs of Termagaunts you occasionally saw will just be even more extinct. The faction as a whole though might not care that much if bigger monsters were competitive.

Models 8/10 - look great but monopose
Rules 2/10. There are no top units in the box. The ok-ish stuff are:
Koptas - allready have aobr koptas and don't need >3
Megaboss - will likely get replaced with dinoboss as soon as it's released
Deff dread - still not good enough and needs 3 flames, I like 3 kanz more than 1 dread.

So, a no for me. I don't need those models.

Scotsman is on fire this thread. Let me know what those exalts do for you… I always wonder what happens when I let fly with the exalt button.

Not hot. The Boys are a mess. Being forced to build 1 nob,1 special or heavy weapon, 3 shootas and only 5 choppas is bad. The mix is not the problem but being forced to build them that way is. New players will have to buy so many boxes to get what they want because they can't just getting what they want from the start.

That's why it's bad.

The Beast Snagga Box would have been an excellent Combat Patrol for my Snakebites, but unfortunately it was too limited so I didn't get it three times I saw it on offer.

That Combat Patrol box? There's nothing in there for me, really. I'll see if I can get ten of these monopose boyz for cheap and variety, but I don't need anything else.

Yeah, I wonder how many boxes get looted for the boss and kopters. Would be cool to pick up ten of the monoposers to add to da mob.